WB on darks using a white wb underbase - who's doing it?

[Spreading Ink]

Ok - just did some testing this week using wb white Matsui 301W as an underbase with a partial flash (not fully cured, but fairly hot plattens) on a 8 color jumbo print at 55 line count (line count was a bit overkill, but didn't know if we were going to have to switch out for plastisol).  We were putting the jumbo print over a 3 color all over print, but I wanted the result to be all waterbase and discharging the base wasn't an option.

Mesh counts were 280 and 300 - 280 for the base and the highlight white.  We would have been lower mesh count and 45 lpi normally on something like this, but I was afraid it might now work and we'd have to move to plastisol for the overprint and didn't want to invest the time into a second set of screens.

Prints came out surprisingly well and over print covered great with no bleed through or show through of the under print.

Anyone else doing anything similar?  The results were good enough I am considering this as an option for times when discharge isn't wanted or needed.  More testing is of course required, but I am thinking some of the crappy purples and blues that use a large amount of indigo in the dye (indigo is the major reason most blues don't discharge well - as it takes an overdye to turn the shirts blue - one pass of the dye will not create a royal in the dyeing process). 

We did have some drying issues with the white, but there were some fairly long periods of inks sitting around

Interested in hearing any thoughts, comments or others experiences with similar testing or printing results.

[brandon]

Hey, yes, we do on certain designs with specific substrates. Triblends and the like. The Matsui Opaque White works well for this. Flash with a cool down station and then wow water base on top. I have some samples at the shop I can take and post.

[brandon]

Oh yeah, I should say we usually reach for discharge but sometimes as you noted it just is not an option. And after a washing or two even with the Opaque White underbase the hand is almost not there

[Spreading Ink]

Is the Opaque White the Rubber white or the 301W?

We used 301W and had no hand in the print at all.

[brandon]

Rubber White? Hahahha, almost forgot about that. No, its not.

Crap, can't remember but it says Opaque White on the buckets. I would have to look on Monday or call/text down there in a bit. At the vet now with our 16 year old cat Angus and he is not having it!

[brandon]

Just looked at the Matsui website and it is not even listed. Not the Matt white or the mixing or anything else. Ill find out for ya' soon

[Spreading Ink]

Thanks Brandon - appreciate the assist.

Dave

[ScreenPrinter123]

Any issues with putting plastisol top coats on top of the wb matsui white HO?

[Spreading Ink]

We didn't do that - entire print was waterbase.  We didn't mix inks at all.

[Rockers]

In Australia, they printing a lot that way.
But they use Permaset waterbased inks. The Permaset flash white is very opaque and can be easily printed through a 205 mesh.

[ScreenPrinter123]

We didn't do that - entire print was waterbase.  We didn't mix inks at all.

Sorry - wasn't clear. Just wanted to know in general, as I was considering it for a job.

[tonypep]

Sorry I have exctreme back pain but will try to respond better tomorrow. You folks are on the right tract.

[Spreading Ink]

We tried the permaset a few years ago, but I wasn't really impressed - the inks dried in the screens way to fast (we live in a high desert type area).  We have very few problems with water base and discharge in general drying in the screens, but I am interested in this technique for a couple of reasons - one to totally negate any hand from discharge itself and also to be able to use a more opaque type of white for printing sim process without having to knock out colors as much in the sep process.

[brandon]

Hey Dave,
I am wrong. It is a 301. But it just says 301 White Opaque. It is an ink that in the past we had to purchase directly from Matsui, like their Jet Black. We have a few gallons left and it does work great but we are in the midst of a lot going on with expansion and deciding which brand of water base we will be staying with in the future. But the one Matsui product we will keep is the shimmer which you can tint and we might keep a few gallons of this white around as well. Just in case. You never know

[Screened Gear]

CCI has a new product for this. PURE WHITE its a ready to use waterbase white, its new. I have a gallon on its way to my shop today. Its about 25% more than the D-white to give you a idea of price.