Rutland DC white

[tonypep]

Well I'm pleasantly suprised to be proven wrong. A couple of days ago I posted that I wasn't crazy about the Rutland DC white. So they just left a little while ago and we tested printed it on an auto against Sericol and CCI side by side. Same screen, squeegee, etc. Printed black, heathers, and several colors; many of which discharged OK but not A+. Guess what? Rutland was better across the board. So what happened the other day when it printed off white? Had to be the garment.
Switching over.

[ebscreen]

Is this a new product or the same stuff that has been around for awhile?

It used to be our fave but then we found CCI. My one complaint is it's too thin, and
loses a lot of water in the screen during long production runs.

[tonypep]

This the same product although they working on something better

[jasonl]

did the same test at my shop and Magna Super white beats them all.  CCI has a new one thats coming soon.  Its in development right now and will be on the same playing field I am told.  Tony, what does a gallon of that Rutland cost?

[ZooCity]

Weird how that works. 

I'm still in the CCI D-White camp but after reading this, I'll remember to re-compare once in a while. 

I actually prefer my white's quite watery but that's probably b/c I'm printing it with my hands and need some help getting penetration.

[Itsa Little CrOoked]

This thread is a surprise.  The girls up front at my place, have ALWAYS whined the most about my White DC WB jobs being "off white", more than any other thing I print. I converted to CCI D-White straight out of the can, with 7%ZFS and it is the best I've achieved in this arena so far. (Oh, plus a little water)

It looks like I'll be getting a little Union to try out.

Dangit Tony anyhow!!!     You are just like the old E.F. Hutton TV commercial, "When E.F. Hutton talks, people listen..."   

[RICK STEFANICK]

i prefer a little waterier white.. im sure thats spelled wrong

[brandon]

Interesting. We were using a Matsui / CCI combo for a long, long time and switched basically to CCI a few months ago. For plastisol we have been QCM since we first opened as they used to be local and Colin helped us out all the time. However, with our current expansion and new ink and screen rooms coming we are contemplating making the switch to Rutland plastisol and possibly their water base as well. This way we just have one ink company under the roof. Makes sense but we have great results with CCI. We shall see. I do know in April we are going to have our Rutland guy stay with us for like two days and educate everyone so we shall see. Makes the most sense to me and I can keep it nice and simple for the staff. Cut out any thinking required!!!

[jsheridan]

what.. theirs a better white!

[balloonguy]

I converted to CCI D-White straight out of the can, with 7%ZFS and it is the best I've achieved in this arena so far. (Oh, plus a little water)

Do I understand correctly? You are not mixing white with any kind of base? I was under the impression that white out of the bucket was not a good plan because it is chalky or something.
Matt

[tonypep]

You can try between 70% white to 30% base regardless of brand and usually not sacrifice brightness. This will reduce the chalkiness which, BTW goes away after the first wash. The Rutland has a faint bluish tint which is one factor in what makes it better. Now that DC is catching on many ink mfrs are paying more attention to this and are actively pursuing R&D. Rutland is one of them. CCI is another.

[StuJohnston]

So, I heard somewhere that Rutland and Union are connected such that one company owns the other. Is this true? If so, does anyone know if there will be a Union version of the Rutland white? My local suppliers don't carry Rutland but one carries Union.

[tonypep]

A while back Union acquired Pavonine, a WB mfr. The Rutland brand is a hybrid of that system with a reduced pigment selection and improved white. Not sure about Union WB. Seems redundant. Heres some Rutland samps

[StuJohnston]

They do carry pavonine come to think of it. I got the card of the rep last time I was there, so I will hit him up about it.

Union also has Aerotex which is a sort of waterbased ink. I wonder what would happen if you put zfs in with the catalyst.

[Spreading Ink]

We have used a bunch of different waterbase/discharge systems, bases and inks a long the way.   We never really did the Matsui craze too much - good ink and like the way it printed, but it does not (or at the time did not) work well with all over prints - there was too much tack in their bases and that is not something you want when printing all over prints! 

The latest change we did was to the Rutland White last year sometime - we did the same thing test against the white (and several off the shelf whites that we weren't using at the time that someone had left for us to 'test') and came to the same conclusion as Tony the Rutland white was the best of the bunch and we have been using it since then.

We always used Matsui's softeners and wetting agents as they seem to have the best additives on the market.

Currently we are 100% Rutland for pigments and inks on the discharge and water base side.  While WB bases are cheaper we don't buy them and simply use discharge base with or without activation for all water base printing.  It's easier than having another drum of base around and having a third ink to keep up once mixed (was that a wb base when mixed?) and if we find we need to discharge something we didn't would require it, it can be done without remixing the entire formula.

Lately we have been doing some experimenting with printing a waterbase only (no discharge) white underbase with a partial flash with water base colors over the top - anyone else doing this?  Our initial test results look pretty good and we are considering doing this for some jobs.   We occasionally have a request for an all overprint with a standard at the apex type print on the sleeve or something which has to be added over the all over print.  In the past this usually had to be done with plastisol as you can't really discharge over a cured print, but our testing so far shows this may be a good viable alternative to that.

Our initial results with this have looked good, but we have only done it in sampling at this point and I am not sure how it will work over a run as we were having some issues with the white drying in the screen (we were sampling though and there were some long periods of ink sitting in the screens on a 55 line count....)  We rarely do water base halftones at 55 because it's usually just not necessary and for most images a 45 line will work fine and is a good balance between detail and printability - with this particular sample we thought it may be necessary to do plastisol overprint so the films and screens were prepped at 55 and we tested with the water base first - results were good enough we stuck with it throughout the sampling.

I don't maybe I should start a new thread with this question about underbasing with regular waterbase.

Back to the Rutland white - we really like it - I do have some CCI white in house to test (they brought me a gallon and I talked with our rep - we typically require 5 gallons to get a good test any discharge or waterbase we use has to pass the all over print testing to make it in our shop - if it doesn't it won't make it as I don't want multiple systems/bases in the shop.