How does one stop filibration on......

[Ron Pierson]

.......soft shirts like american apparel or next level darks when we lay down a white underbase. these shirts are "fuzzy" out of the box. We use 110 or 160 print-flash-print but I think the ink is too thick. We have tried just print (one time)-flash-color but with limited results. We have tried a higher mesh like 230 but we can't put enough ink down even with a print-flash-print to stop the filibration of the shirt. the "fuzzies" just keep "popping through". even if we discharge, all we are doing is changing the "fuzzies" a different color - they still exist.

We have M&R autos with good tension mesh on rollers and sharp squeeges (60-90-60) at a proper angle.
We are using Triangle phoenix white. I'm not convinced that "another white" will solve the issue

thanks in advance for all responses. All your comments are appreciated.

Ron

[Frog]

Ron, I'm sure that someone with more experience than me will give you some tips on specific inks and techniques, but as long as I can remember, the trade-off  for the softer feel of ring-spun shirts, is an increase in fibrillation.

btw, this is a marketable look. exploit it, or at least be up front about the difficulty to eliminate it.

As for the discharge fuzzies, at least they don't make the print look faded.

[blue moon]

.......soft shirts like american apparel or next level darks when we lay down a white underbase. these shirts are "fuzzy" out of the box. We use 110 or 160 print-flash-print but I think the ink is too thick. We have tried just print (one time)-flash-color but with limited results. We have tried a higher mesh like 230 but we can't put enough ink down even with a print-flash-print to stop the filibration of the shirt. the "fuzzies" just keep "popping through". even if we discharge, all we are doing is changing the "fuzzies" a different color - they still exist.

We have M&R autos with good tension mesh on rollers and sharp squeeges (60-90-60) at a proper angle.
We are using Triangle phoenix white. I'm not convinced that "another white" will solve the issue

thanks in advance for all responses. All your comments are appreciated.

Ron

Ron, the print we (Dan and I) sent to the competition was on real fuzzy ringspun cotton. We used two 330's in a row for underbase. It gave it enough coverage and covered up the fuzz. It was not perfect, but pretty decent in the end. We did use a highlight white, too (so there were three white screens).

[Frog]

Back when I ran a lot of ring-spuns, the fibrillation didn't raise its ugly head until they were laundered.

[Dottonedan]

Something seems strange if you have came up to a 230 mesh and can't get enough coverage to lock the fibers in.

When you said you used 110 and 160, I thought your probably not setting the ink up on top of the shirt and encapsulating the fibers. Typically, what happens (as i initially thought was your case) is that people tend to drive the ink into the shirt. This causes two negatives. 1, you use far more ink than needed to get the coverage your looking for. 2, it adds to the bullet proof feel. Imagine coating a screen fast and only one time. The emulsion would dry and seem to suck up tight against the shape of the mesh threads thus showing the mesh threads and knuckles. This is similar to what happens when you smash ink into a garment. I would guess that would have to be the case here but driving the ink in is not all.

As i mentioned earlier, you can expect to see these issue on highe mesh. To see it happening on low mesh is surprising even if you are driving the ink in.

I would look at the emulsion thickness of your stencil as well. The reason I say this, is because we typically here of fiberlation from those using higher mesh such as 230, 300 and 350.  To have this issue on a 110 or 160 seems very odd to me. Most times when we see this issue is because we are putting such a thin layer of ink down that the fibers can pop back through. Washing or abrasion enhances this and is why you see process prints getting lighter out after a wash.

Similar to my ( one fast coat of emulsion scenario), if your coating method is too thin for your mesh, your print will be too thin as well. This can result in a need for multiple hits to get the good coverage. It's comon for shops to not coat low mesh ( as much as is really needed). To manually get a proper EOM, you might need to coat a 110 as much as 6 times. Who really does that...right? For reasons such as yours, you may want to. You might normally coat them thin and have not seen this issue much but I'm guessing it's not the first time. It's just the first time it's been noticed. If you would ever coat your 110 mesh with the actual suggested EOM and printed it, you would notice an obvious difference in the print result for the better.

Faster production because you are getting what you need right away such as brighter whites in one hit for one reason but many to list.

Check emulsion thickness.
Check off contact (make it close)
You said you were using high tension but that is another actor to putting the ink up on top.
Cut back on pressure. Use only enough to clear the screen.

What people forget is that all (all) print strokes should happen only one time. If you need more than one, something is wrong in your set up.

Some areas may seem to repeat themselves here due to my small window on phone.

So says Dot-tone

[jsheridan]

Someone is using to much squeegee pressure, not enough flood pressure to fill the open areas and low EOM screens to put the ink IN the shirt.

Coat some screens with a high EOM and re-shoot the base. Load the press with some dark test shirts.

Adjust your flood so it's just above the screen, slow it down a bit to ensure it fills the open areas of the mesh. Back off on squeegee pressure and print once.. adjust pressure down and print again.. only print each shirt twice. Keep indexing to next clean shirt and keep adding pressure until you clear the screen with a single pass. This is your printing pressure. Now adjust your print speed. You want to stroke as fast as the ink will allow you (BTW.. Triangle phoenix white is thick and generally crappy ink, thin it down a little with reducer and it'll print 10 times better) Add speed until the screen no longer clears, back off the speed a bit and you should be ready to print. If all went well you won't need to P-F-P as this is the recipe for a single hit white.

[ebscreen]

While all of the above is true, in the end it some down to the fabric.
I've meant to research yarn types for some time, anyone have a resource?

Soft fuzzy fabric with a  million yarn ends sticking up will never print as
well as a smooth jersey knit surface, assuming plastisol.

 I can setup a print that looks absolutely stellar on a Gildan or any standard shirt
or my favorite, Sun Apparel (30 singles yarn). Throw an American Apparel 2102 on there
and it will never look as good, plain and simple.

When it comes to AA I drop white down to 125. Yep, 125. That is if we can't discharge for
some reason, which is our preferred method.  This print:




Is a discharge underbase, 230 colors and 180 highlight white, no flash. You can't see softness, but it's
our best results for non-straight-discharge on AA.


Do yourself a favor and try some Sun Apparel 30500's. While it won't help if the client demands
a certain brand, it will definitely give you an idea of the difference fabric makes. 30 singles.

[ZooCity]

All good thoughts above.  If you want to have any hope of winning the battle v. fibrillation you need that underbase to go down in a single hit and you need it up on top of those fibers.  Pierre's method with the double, high tpi screens is awesome but not every job has the room for this of course.

Try a 150s mesh screen and coat it 2/1 with the round end of the coater, nice and slow.  You should see a glassy, smooth finish on the print side of the stencil.  Properly coated and exposed, the 150 will hold 55lpi dots so you can still use a percentage ub if you like.  Alternatively you could just drop your mesh count down with standard thread mesh and get a similar effect.  And yes, fill that stencil don't just flood ink over top the screen. 

I'm not an auto operator but I do just what John described on the manual until I get the screen 100% cleared with only as much pressure as necessary.  Then I have to rely on concentration and muscle memory to complete the job consistently.  The static variables of your auto are your friend when printing so take advantage and record them when you get success. 

The white actually could be a big part of the problem.  While most white inks are "just fine", you do need something that's easy printing and will clear the mesh but still have enough body to matte down the fibers.  A stiff, tacky ink might matte those fibers down but require a triple hit to clear the screen whereas a based down white might clear first time yet not have enough body to hold the fibers down.   You'll have to find that balance in your underbase ink especially.  My tip for you here is use a high-quality white and not only stir but actually warm that ink before printing.  We use Epic Quick from Wilflex and warm it to around 100 degrees F before stirring and printing and reload with fresh warm ink as needed.  Your white should "roll" in front of the squeegee like a little ink tsunami, shearing the ink you pre-loaded the stencil with and using it's "hydrology" or whatever you might call it to assist this.   If it's dragging around like refrigerated peanut butter, get it out of there. 

Long post, but to wrap it up, you're seeing fibers because the first hit is actually giving the fibers a foundation to hold onto while leaving their ends sticking up.  Second hit is just adding another layer to the foundation and maybe lightly coating the fiber ends.  You need to knock those suckers down on the first hit.  Then, if necessary the second underbase screen or the top colors themselves will fill in the gaps and smooth it out.  You can only make it so good on this type of fabric though. 

Nice print eb!  I've heard about Sun before and meaning to check 'em out.  Do they have distribution?