Testing out Newman Roller Mesh-Flash Panels

[alan802]

I recently bought a few of 102's flash panels of the Newman Roller Mesh and have them stretched to 45 newtons and coated with Saati PHW Red, with a EOM on one of them at about 50 microns, and another at 70 microns.  My goal with this particular mesh count was to try and find a mesh that we could use for doing some of our "one hit" jobs.  We have one particular job that we print almost weekly that uses the Union Khacki ultrasoft ink on a gildan military green shirt, and we've been able to accomplish a one hit print on it recently but it's hit or miss sometimes and it's also borderline on the opacity every once in a while.  I think with the right stencil, tension and extreme open area of this mesh count (55%), and some new techniques on press I can get a nice thin layer of perfectly opaque ink with one stroke.  I'm always looking for the right mesh for a particular print and I've been very pleased with the Murakami Smartmesh S threads, but wish that they could hold higher tension.  I plan on buying additional mesh counts of the Newman mesh and testing it out as well, but thought I'd start with this lower count for a few specific jobs that we've achieved the one hit approach on using sefar 1500 regular thread and high tension.  I think this mesh will allow us to print more jobs with one stroke, no flashing or pfp.  If I'm getting good results with an inferior mesh choice I think with the right mesh I can obviously achieve the one hit more often, and with better quality.

Does anyone have any experience with this particular mesh, any count is fine?  The threads are thick, the open area seems to be a bit larger than the sefar that we have on most of our screens, and the tension levels are really high.  I think I'll have to re-calibrate the press soon to take advantage of the higher tensions of the newman mesh.  I've noticed some pallets/printheads are slightly out of whack. 

One a slightly side note, although it kind of gave me the notion to further experiment with more mesh types, I've been reading some of Joe Clarke's articles at Printwear magazine and although 95% of it is over my head, I think I'm beginning to understand more and more of it.  If any of you want to just immerse yourself in some serious technical screen printing information, try reading some of Joe's articles.  Hopefully one day I'll be able to read them and understand 100% of it, but right now, my knowledge level is so low compared to what I'm reading that most of it might as well be in Chinese.  And if some of you want to be humbled a bit, kind of like reading some of Marks posts, or if you're getting a little cocky with what you think you know about screen printing, try out Joe's writings as well.  We are blessed to have some of these guys sharing this kind of info with us less knowledgeable.  I'm pretty stoked about some of the stuff I've read this week. 

[inkbrigade]

We use the newman 102 mesh for white on sweatshirts. It's awesome! My wife doesn't like it on t-shirts though.
If your getting more roller mesh we use:
166
205
272.
All at 45 newtons.

[ZooCity]

We use:

115, 128, 166, 205, 272 (they 86'd the 225 which was a fave of mine but I guess it's one less thread count to deal with), 305

115-128 @ 55n

166-205 @ 45n

272-305 @ 40n

The threads are about the same diameter as Murakami's "T" threads but hold much higher and more stable tension.  After the first couple runs/cycles they stabilize with no extra effort at around 40-45n which is cool.  Oh and the 205 and 272 have the same thread diameter, Don Newman told me on the phone that this is why he got rid of the 225 as it seemed redundant.

We're manual printers and can get away with a somewhat out of parallel press since we can more intuitively adjust the print stroke.  I'm sure going to the high tension would be a way bigger deal on the auto and require a lot of vigilance there. 

On all meshes we hard flood and push stroke. 

The off-contact is quite low, even for big coverage areas of thick white ink but you still need a good bit of pressure to clear the mesh compared with S threads.

My favorite things about the Newman Roller Mesh:

• Durable
• Excellent consistency between multiple strokes (when required) and over a print run
• Quick to get at high tension and stabilize
• Superior coverage for large, open image areas
• Really tight mesh just feels good, it's hard to beat a 305 @ 40n if you ask me

Compared to S mesh it's cons are:

• Price and availability
• Pressure needed to clear the print
• Thread diameter but there's an obvious correlation between thread thickness and tension levels

I love the shur-loc panels we sampled for S mesh.  Not sure I would like panels for Roller Mesh though.  At the high tensions you really need to regulate on the corner softening and adjust it intuitively if you want a long life for your screens. 

For now, we're keeping a quiver of Roller Mesh around and phasing in a bunch of shur-loc S mesh panels.  I'm addicted to the S mesh because, for squeegee pushers like us, it makes a big difference in fatigue over long runs.  I'm also completely charmed by it's ability to lay down opaque solid fills and 45-55 lpi dots on a single screen with a single, easy pass.  If we had an auto, I'm not sure if I'd change that opinion or not.

The first co. to figure out how to make thread that thin that can stretch up to 35n on average is going to win big time. 

[alan802]

Good lord I just printed a test print through one of these screens.  It's essentially a one hit white on the text part of the print, and it has a large open area in the design and it's almost a passable white print.  One stroke on forest green tee, hard flood, very fast print stroke (15"/sec), 70 duro beveled blade, 45 newtons, very low off contact, hybrid special white ink I mixed together.  I'll try to post pics tonight or tomorrow.

[blue moon]

I recently bought a few of 102's flash panels of the Newman Roller Mesh and have them stretched to 45 newtons and coated with Saati PHW Red, with a EOM on one of them at about 50 microns, and another at 70 microns.  My goal with this particular mesh count was to try and find a mesh that we could use for doing some of our "one hit" jobs.  We have one particular job that we print almost weekly that uses the Union Khacki ultrasoft ink on a gildan military green shirt, and we've been able to accomplish a one hit print on it recently but it's hit or miss sometimes and it's also borderline on the opacity every once in a while.  I think with the right stencil, tension and extreme open area of this mesh count (55%), and some new techniques on press I can get a nice thin layer of perfectly opaque ink with one stroke.  I'm always looking for the right mesh for a particular print and I've been very pleased with the Murakami Smartmesh S threads, but wish that they could hold higher tension.  I plan on buying additional mesh counts of the Newman mesh and testing it out as well, but thought I'd start with this lower count for a few specific jobs that we've achieved the one hit approach on using sefar 1500 regular thread and high tension.  I think this mesh will allow us to print more jobs with one stroke, no flashing or pfp.  If I'm getting good results with an inferior mesh choice I think with the right mesh I can obviously achieve the one hit more often, and with better quality.

Does anyone have any experience with this particular mesh, any count is fine?  The threads are thick, the open area seems to be a bit larger than the sefar that we have on most of our screens, and the tension levels are really high.  I think I'll have to re-calibrate the press soon to take advantage of the higher tensions of the newman mesh.  I've noticed some pallets/printheads are slightly out of whack. 

One a slightly side note, although it kind of gave me the notion to further experiment with more mesh types, I've been reading some of Joe Clarke's articles at Printwear magazine and although 95% of it is over my head, I think I'm beginning to understand more and more of it.  If any of you want to just immerse yourself in some serious technical screen printing information, try reading some of Joe's articles.  Hopefully one day I'll be able to read them and understand 100% of it, but right now, my knowledge level is so low compared to what I'm reading that most of it might as well be in Chinese.  And if some of you want to be humbled a bit, kind of like reading some of Marks posts, or if you're getting a little cocky with what you think you know about screen printing, try out Joe's writings as well.  We are blessed to have some of these guys sharing this kind of info with us less knowledgeable.  I'm pretty stoked about some of the stuff I've read this week. 

how about some links to Joe's writing? Anything in particular you liked?

pierre

[jsheridan]

I'm always looking for the right mesh for a particular print and I've been very pleased with the Murakami Smartmesh S threads, but wish that they could hold higher tension.  

The S thread uses a thinner thread so it's max tension will be lower.

I used to be a high tension only printer. I went for thick threads as they held higher tension because I thought that's what you were supposed to do. Then I learned about mesh open area and stencil thickness and how it effects ink transfer. Now I prefer a thinner thread with a balanced tension level. I'd rather modify my ink slightly to print through a 156 S mesh @ 28n versus forcing an ink through a thick thread 160 @ 45n.

[inkbrigade]

I'm always looking for the right mesh for a particular print and I've been very pleased with the Murakami Smartmesh S threads, but wish that they could hold higher tension.  

The S thread uses a thinner thread so it's max tension will be lower.

I used to be a high tension only printer. I went for thick threads as they held higher tension because I thought that's what you were supposed to do. Then I learned about mesh open area and stencil thickness and how it effects ink transfer. Now I prefer a thinner thread with a balanced tension level. I'd rather modify my ink slightly to print through a 156 S mesh @ 28n versus forcing an ink through a thick thread 160 @ 45n.

Good to see you back on the boards john!

[ZooCity]

I'd rather modify my ink slightly to print through a 156 S mesh @ 28n versus forcing an ink through a thick thread 160 @ 45n

Interesting.  I'm on the fence about this still and keeping a little of both around.  I can get the same result, using the same ink on the same substrate with the same coating technique out of a Newman 166 @ 45 as a Murakami 150/48 @ 26 (watch out taking the 150s higher than this, it does stress out the knuckles and severely shortens the life of the screen despite what I wanted to believe).  It's just two different approaches on-press.

I had some contamination on a 150s screen yesterday that I didn't catch pre-press screwing up the halftones in one little spot and had to re-burn in a pinch.  Used a 166 that was already coated instead and got the same result but different strokes to get it. 

Nevertheless, I find myself gravitating toward those 150/48s for almost every single job. 

Anybody gone all the way toward one or the other?

[alan802]

how about some links to Joe's writing? Anything in particular you liked?

pierre

http://printwearmag.com/article/how-make-life-easy-production  I like this one alot.  It shed some light on the 3 types of on press ink buildup.

http://printwearmag.com/article/screen-print-methodology-pumping-white Wrap your head around this one for a while, really good read.

http://printwearmag.com/article/mesh-selection  This one is really technical and took a long time for me to understand even a little of it.

http://printwearmag.com/article/screen-printing/screen-tension-tutorial  What?  Yeah, this one was the first one I read of Joe's articles.  A friend of mine forwarded it to me and asked me to explain it to him.  Yeah right. 

I met Joe a few years ago at the ISS Ft. Worth when he was showing his new Smiling Jack squeegee blades.  Him and Bill Hood were talking while I was trying my best to try and soak up some of the knowledge that was whizing over my head.  Every few minutes or so they would look at me and ask me my thoughts to whatever the subject was at the time and I'm sure they saw that look on my face and realized I had a huge bag of nothing, I was just trying to keep my head from exploding.

Here are a few pics of the first and only test print through the 102's.  The top left of that pic shows a pic of a one hit based down white through a 156, the bottom right image is one stroke through the newman 102.  You'll notice the edges of the print isn't ideal, not crisp it's actually bad, but again, this was just the first and only print I did.  I could clear that up easily.  That print was with a 12"/sec flood/fill stroke, hard, then I used a faster than normal print stroke, 15"/sec.  I had the pressure in the chopper cylinders set at a real low level, 21-22 psi and the blade was far enough down to clear the ink but there was absolutely no bend to the blade at all.





I agree with John about not concerning myself with printing with super high tension.  I would also rather print with a 150 S thread at 28 newtons than a sefar 1500 156 at 60 newtons.  However, I wonder how much better the print process would be if those S threads could go up to 40 newtons or even more?  That would be interesting.

[DouglasGrigar]

However, I wonder how much better the print process would be if those S threads could go up to 40 newtons or even more?  That would be interesting.

“They” are working on that...

You can of course test this yourself by taking a screen mesh to max tension, then taking it back to the table and letting off tension, print again, and repeat that process...

You may be surprised, depending on the ink (as this is a variable) the best print is often not max...

Yes you can make a mess, but it is a simple way to get an answer you can see and of course repeat.

Your issue with that Khaki ink is that it is a GP ink and not that opaque - it is one of the colors that I wish was MaxOpaque...

Try Ochre or tan from QCM in the XLOB series for opacity... One hit opacity is not the holy grail - its cherry picking...

[Clark]

I ordered 30 newton flash panels in assorted meshes today.  I have only used them a few times on the 25x36 size but have been impressed so far. They are hardier than the S-Mesh and do pretty good on coverage.  The 25x36's got beat around pretty good due to us not working with that size before and they held up great to the abuse. 

[shurloc]

Just to drop in another opinion FWIW...

If you want higher tension, larger opening, more volume, you could easily head to a thicker thread like the Murakami HD thread... For example: the 150/48 S thread allows for a 39c3/m2 volume near 25N - the Murakami 135/71 HD thread allows for a 48c3/m2 volume at 40N... You are just going to lose some of that detail...