Wowee, I can't mix TEAL 7467 in WB DISCHARGE.

[Itsa Little CrOoked]

Any ideas?

This comes out  waaaay too light when mixed by the numbers. I've used the Matsui software and tried percentages off of the Pantone Book (Un-Coated) Swatches.

I have PC Matsui and CCI pigments, CCI bases. 

Thanks,
Stan

[tonypep]

A GS Blue and Green pc % formula should get you there. No white ink or white PC!

[Itsa Little CrOoked]

I don't know what you mean by GS. And you're right about the WHITE!  Didn't work AT all....

[tonypep]

Most Pc systems have a GS Blue (stands for green shade) and an RS blue (red shade)
They don't always label them that way> Could be Blue and Marine . Do not use Marine or RS Blue. This shld be pretty  easy just need the ratio. Most formulas, when done correctly require two or less pigments.
WRITE IT DOWN AND STORE YOUR FORMULAS WITH SWATCHES! I have several swatch books with over eighty of my own formulas. Rarely need to make a new color

[Itsa Little CrOoked]

Okay.

The PMS formula I started with CCI pigments) called for 25% Process Blue, 25% Green, and 50% White.  Well the white didn't work at all.

In the cup, I can "hit" an acceptable teal by boosting the CCI PC Green a lot, boosting the  CCI Process Blue a little, and leaving out the white. I also added a trace of black.  To be clear, in the cup, it looks ok, but it discharged WAAAY too light. I used the CCI premium base, and 6% ZFS.  I am probably bumping up against the 10% pigment loading by this point.

How much pigment is too much?

[tonypep]

If the white is a PC then you can significantly bump up the blue and green.

[ebscreen]

We start to get nervous at about 9-10% load. You typically don't have to go there except for
some reds and yellows.

If you drop the white out of the formula, you've got %50 more pigment to add.

Keep in mind that total load will affect the outcome of the color as well. Less might be more, but
more might be more as well in this case. Start with less.


And on a tip from Tony, we got a heat gun in here (industrial hair dryer). So much better than
waiting at the other end of the dryer when mixing colors.

[ZooCity]

Remove the white.
Drop the activator down to 4.5% or even lower and go back up from there.
Max pigments.  (maybe add fixer if you get into the 'danger zone', seems to be what others are doing)
No black or white until the very end, after you see one come out the dryer and all of the above is done.

If you have PC set you can hit this.  I hit walls from time to time with our RFU set from time to time.

I get this more with unactivated Texcharge going on light than with dc ironically, I feel your pain. 

[Itsa Little CrOoked]

Thanks, guys. I had the best luck with ZERO White, even though 50% of the pigment load is White as called for by the PMS fan.  Wierd. I didin't try Matsui, because I'm transitioning away from them, mostly.

But 10 or even 12% pigment loading with only Process Blue and Green (CCI) didn't produce anything like what I'm after.

I'm jumping ship on this one, and printing plastisol.  That doesn't solve the problem though. It'll just come up again.  But I've got to get this out the door.

[tonypep]

This is how we make our swatch books

[tonypep]

I don't use Matsui or CCI pigments but the Vivitone, Rutland, and Magna pigments are wicked strong. Never have a problem hitting a color

[ebscreen]

Is process blue the correct blue for this?

[tonypep]

It should be the equivalent of a GS Blue just don't know how strong it is

[Itsa Little CrOoked]

Tony, that center sample would definitely work on my next discharge project in this color range.  And that's a neat way to do swatches.

I've never used the pigment lines you referenced.  And it might solve my problem. It does seem to be a pigment "strength" issue to me.  In the cup, it works great, it just shows weak coverage when discharged.