Why do I always lose?

[beanie357]

Finally the plumbing and hvac guys finished the hook up for our new to us anatol Mariah gas oven.
3 phase.
They finish late Friday. I'm at the retail store. Get call. No draft. Won't fire.
Arrgghh.
Of course today get electrician to swap leads. Off we go. Fans draft perfectly in the right direction.
Why if it's a 50/50 chance on anything do I get the shaft?

Musta been a ogre in a previous life.
Now a week of straightening and racking.
and clean up. Only 2 weeks late.

At least we start the year with our nw ten color and gas oven. Maybe 2013 will work out ok for us.

[Itsa Little CrOoked]

3 phase can do that. But the odds of having a certified electrician miss it is a bit of an eyebrow raiser.

I got my existing 240 leads crossed on a new main panel installation in my own personal domicile about 20 years ago. Inexcusable and expensive amature mistake. Refigerator, TV, Microwave, anything that happened to be in the "ON" position at the time went POOF. Why I am ratting myself out on this, I don't know. You don't have it so bad. At least you didn't burn up your new dryer.

I need a gas dryer too. And an auto. Good luck getting it all sorted, and Happy New Year!!

Stan
.

[mk162]

This is why I always lick my leads to test them.  Never messed up yet.

[Sbrem]

the thing about a 50/50 chance of going wrong is that it can happen 100% of the time. Just shake your fist at the heavens and move on, works for me LOL

Steve

[Itsa Little CrOoked]

This is why I always lick my leads to test them.  Never messed up yet.

Wow!  And your posts still make sense!!!

I had a young, stupid worker once, up in a bucket....get hold of a live 15/30 Neon Transformer whilst servicing an electric sign. He called in sick the next day, his chest muscles hurt so bad.  He didn't bring a lawsuit against me.....

Even though that transformer only carried a nominal 30 thousandths of an amp on the secondary, the voltage steps up to 15,000 volts!  A LOT of potential pain there!  And  he could have fallen out of the bucket. 

On an earlier boo boo, my brother in law on a similar service job, in a similar scenario....um...."went to sleep"...(yeah that's it...went to sleep) after getting into a Fluorescent transformer's secondary.  His "NAP" occurred while "sitting on top of a sign cabinet, up...oh.....25 feet in the air. He just sortof "leaned" backwards and all he got was a blister from a burned finger, and bump on his head.

So beanie357, don't feel so bad. You don't "always lose".  Mixed up wires can be very bad.  I've been very fortunate, and so were you on this deal.  You've just forgotten all the stuff most all of us get by with, before we finally "learn".

Stan


P.S.  I read somewhere, that under the right circumstances, a half an amp'll DO ya. Don't know how they arrived at that, but really?!? 1/2 AMP?!?!? It would probably take some elevated voltage to push it through your body, but sheesh, a half amp is NOTHING!  What's a car battery's rating?  600? 650?  Thankfully, the voltage is low, and usually our bodies aren't such great conductors at those very low voltages.

[blue moon]

This is why I always lick my leads to test them.  Never messed up yet.

Wow!  And your posts still make sense!!!

I had a young, stupid worker once, up in a bucket....get hold of a live 15/30 Neon Transformer whilst servicing an electric sign. He called in sick the next day, his chest muscles hurt so bad.  He didn't bring a lawsuit against me.....

Even though that transformer only carried a nominal 30 thousandths of an amp on the secondary, the voltage steps up to 15,000 volts!  A LOT of potential pain there!  And  he could have fallen out of the bucket. 

On an earlier boo boo, my brother in law on a similar service job, in a similar scenario....um...."went to sleep"...(yeah that's it...went to sleep) after getting into a Fluorescent transformer's secondary.  His "NAP" occurred while "sitting on top of a sign cabinet, up...oh.....25 feet in the air. He just sortof "leaned" backwards and all he got was a blister from a burned finger, and bump on his head.

So beanie357, don't feel so bad. You don't "always lose".  Mixed up wires can be very bad.  I've been very fortunate, and so were you on this deal.  You've just forgotten all the stuff most all of us get by with, before we finally "learn".

Stan


P.S.  I read somewhere, that under the right circumstances, a half an amp'll DO ya. Don't know how they arrived at that, but really?!? 1/2 AMP?!?!? It would probably take some elevated voltage to push it through your body, but sheesh, a half amp is NOTHING!  What's a car battery's rating?  600? 650?  Thankfully, the voltage is low, and usually our bodies aren't such great conductors at those very low voltages.

I was a sparky in one of my previous lives. 'still remember the shock (pun intended!) of finding out that under right circumstances 0.1A can be lethal (at 110V)! 'gotten zapped by anything from 12VDC (did not think that was possible until it happened) to 30KV.
As far as Murphy, I have forgotten to turn of the power, grabbed or accidentally touched the wrong lead more than once!

pierre

[Northland]

This is why I always lick my leads to test them.  Never messed up yet.

P.S.  I read somewhere, that under the right circumstances, a half an amp'll DO ya. Don't know how they arrived at that, but really?!? 1/2 AMP?!?!? It would probably take some elevated voltage to push it through your body, but sheesh, a half amp is NOTHING!  What's a car battery's rating?  600? 650?  Thankfully, the voltage is low, and usually our bodies aren't such great conductors at those very low voltages.

30 milli-amps of AC current (1/33 of an amp) is the estimated level that will cause ventricular fibrillation (cardiac arrest).
GFI circuit interupters will trip at 5 milli-amps AC... and will provide good personel protection when used.

[Binkspot]

We had PSEG, local power company change out the transformers over the weekend at a shop I was working at many moons ago. We shut down everything Friday night so not to damage anything. Monday came and started everything up. Destroyed two large air compressors before we knew anything was wrong. The power company phased the the leads wrong, everything was running backwards, they had to come out and switch the legs. Keep in mind this was the power company who I am sure had a phase rotation checker.

Hooking up generators was always fun. After struggling trying to get all the large cables, usually 2/0 or larger hooked up only to find two had to be switched to phase it right.

24 and 36 vdc will get you good and usually not let go very easy.

We used to charge capacitors and toss them to unsuspecting victims. If they caught them right they would get a nice surprise. 

[Itsa Little CrOoked]

30 milliamps didn't used to seem like a lot. I guess I need to rethink that. Won't a fresh alkyline flashlight battery produce 1200 milliamp? Low voltage (pressure) on those make them safer. Correct me if I've forgotten, but I think the lowly NIMH AA cranks 1.2 amps (volume), doesn't it? So theoretically, with the right transformer to boost up the voltage, a handful of Energizers could be potentially lethal? (Considering 24v or 36v will grab you) Am I thinking wrong?

Anyhow it doesn't really matter. Electrocuted isn't a word I want used with my name in the same sentence. It might aid in educating our naive youngsters into a heightened respect of electricity, I guess.

Pierre, your "gotten zapped by anything from 12VDC (did not think that was possible until it happened)....." squares nicely with my son telling me he got buzzed by a car battery once. We had a "DID SO!!!!"  "did not......" "DID SO!!!!"  "did not......" type of conversation afterwards.  I probably oughta apologize.

[ScreenFoo]

To me, the path is what matters the most--shoot a reasonably small current across your hand, it stings, do it across your chest or brain, hope you're lucky.

Your skin has the resistance that saves you on all that jazz--I believe around 30 mA is the proper ballpark for AC skin contact, but you can go an order of power lower into MICRO-amps for death via heart attack--if the current is stimulated under your skin you can cause fibrillation with something like a hundredth of a milliamp.

Not to say it's easy--lucky for most of us.

[blue moon]

30 milliamps didn't used to seem like a lot. I guess I need to rethink that. Won't a fresh alkyline flashlight battery produce 1200 milliamp? Low voltage (pressure) on those make them safer. Correct me if I've forgotten, but I think the lowly NIMH AA cranks 1.2 amps (volume), doesn't it? So theoretically, with the right transformer to boost up the voltage, a handful of Energizers could be potentially lethal? (Considering 24v or 36v will grab you) Am I thinking wrong?

Anyhow it doesn't really matter. Electrocuted isn't a word I want used with my name in the same sentence. It might aid in educating our naive youngsters into a heightened respect of electricity, I guess.

Pierre, your "gotten zapped by anything from 12VDC (did not think that was possible until it happened)....." squares nicely with my son telling me he got buzzed by a car battery once. We had a "DID SO!!!!"  "did not......" "DID SO!!!!"  "did not......" type of conversation afterwards.  I probably oughta apologize.

that's exactly what it was, heavy duty, deep cycle marine batteries. Four in parallel to provide the cranking power Navy assault boats need to get going. It was hot and humid, so as mentioned above, my skin conducted very well. I sat down in shock as I did not think it was possible.

So, my guess, your son was not lying!
pierre

[Itsa Little CrOoked]

ScreenFoo, that is exactly how my "hand" got whacked, right across his young, newly-educated chest.  He said his chest hurt him at the time...I was on the ground in the coach and fetch role when he let himself down, and to be honest, I though he was more scared than hurt.  (kind of a weenie, in terms of pain tolerance)  But when he called in "sick" the next day, I wondered. 

With this thread, it is all coming back to me.  I was more lucky than I knew at the time.  I knew 15,000v @ 30ma could burn and  hurt, but I never imagined there was enough CURRENT to do the deed, with merely an momentary contact.  Grab and Hold, OH heck yeah.  But Bzzzt and Curse....not so much...at least at 30ma. 

I only got buzzed a few times in several decades of sign work.  HAMMERED once.....

It's good to review these once in a while.

Oh, and I just rehearsed the 20-year-old Whole House 240 Wiring Blunder with the missus.  Bad idea.  She's still mad.

[Northland]

In regards to getting a shock from a 12 or 24 volt battery system:
-- when voltage is applied to a coil (motor) it develops a magnetic field. If the voltage is shut OFF, the field collapses rapidly... turning the motor into a generator. The resulting voltage can be a spike several times higher than the original applied voltage. Hence, the shock.

The National Electric Code considers AC voltages above 50 volts as "dangerous". Installers working with voltages below 50 volts typically have "limited power" licenses. Voltages above 50 volts AC require a higher level of licensing/testing.

By the way... don't piss on the electric fence.