Screen Tensions....???

[inkman996]

Fantastic you just did the two screen method and walked away with not only a much better print but did it in much less time, if your powers to be cannot see the benefit in that hit them over the head with a club.

What was the mesh counts for those two screens, I am assuming the first screen was a high TPI hence why your coverage was suffering.

Since you are now doing the two screens, here is a great tip for registering two screens of the same color. Print the first screen then using scotch tape or any clear tape, tape off the registration marks. Print the next screen and you then can easily tell the top ink from the bottom ink and make microing much easier. If you have a registration system disregard this tip lol.

[Rocfrog]

Fantastic you just did the two screen method and walked away with not only a much better print but did it in much less time, if your powers to be cannot see the benefit in that hit them over the head with a club.

One of the bigger problems is that the "powers that be" are in a completely different building two blocks away and very rarely come over here......

What was the mesh counts for those two screens, I am assuming the first screen was a high TPI hence why your coverage was suffering.

originally the screen was a 230 and it had everything on it, now it is the 230 with just the halftone design and then a 160 with the just the words.

Since you are now doing the two screens, here is a great tip for registering two screens of the same color. Print the first screen then using scotch tape or any clear tape, tape off the registration marks. Print the next screen and you then can easily tell the top ink from the bottom ink and make microing much easier. If you have a registration system disregard this tip lol.

That's kind of how we register our screens as it is. We print the first screen on the pellon then using clear packing tape tape off the whole thing then print the second screen on the tape so we can wipe it off as we make adjustments, then if there are more than two colors we just tape over the second color and move onto the third and so on....

We have no sort of registration system!!! LOL!!! have you been reading this thread!!!??? LOL!!!

Nick

[inkman996]

Fantastic you just did the two screen method and walked away with not only a much better print but did it in much less time, if your powers to be cannot see the benefit in that hit them over the head with a club.

One of the bigger problems is that the "powers that be" are in a completely different building two blocks away and very rarely come over here......

What was the mesh counts for those two screens, I am assuming the first screen was a high TPI hence why your coverage was suffering.

originally the screen was a 230 and it had everything on it, now it is the 230 with just the halftone design and then a 160 with the just the words.

Since you are now doing the two screens, here is a great tip for registering two screens of the same color. Print the first screen then using scotch tape or any clear tape, tape off the registration marks. Print the next screen and you then can easily tell the top ink from the bottom ink and make microing much easier. If you have a registration system disregard this tip lol.

That's kind of how we register our screens as it is. We print the first screen on the pellon then using clear packing tape tape off the whole thing then print the second screen on the tape so we can wipe it off as we make adjustments, then if there are more than two colors we just tape over the second color and move onto the third and so on....

We have no sort of registration system!!! LOL!!! have you been reading this thread!!!??? LOL!!!

Nick

I think you meant to say the first screen had the half tones and the type, then the second was the high lite white with only the words.

Funny thing I got from your place is that your powers to be let you use expensive pellons for test printing yet balk at something that would actually help you seriously improve the work flow. Pellons suck, expensive and not the same substrate material as what you are actually going to print on. They are great tho if one plans on keeping printed samples of everything they do.

If your boss's are not physically present then if I were you I would spend the time needed getting these things worked out, it will help you out and maybe just maybe those boss's will realize your abilities and respect your needs to whip the shop in to shape.

Paralelling that press is probably your next thing that has to change.

[alan802]

If you parallel that press, then start using some decently tensioned screens then I promise you that your setup times will be cut in half, probably closer to 70%.  Our shop is living proof of that stat.  We had a terribly calibrated press and 10-12 newton screens and now we are lucky and have better tools for the job and we can do twice as much work as we did back then.  Before we added the regi system we were in the neighborhood of doing 50-60% more with the new press and high tensioned screens.  I promise you I'm not making this up.  I'll be glad to send your bosses the graphs that show those increases.  Oh, and no added payroll either.

[Rocfrog]

Forgot to post a pic of the final print cured....

I think you meant to say the first screen had the half tones and the type, then the second was the high lite white with only the words.

Nope that's what I meant.....the origonal screen that I was trying to print thru was a 230 and it had everything on it....

Here's the film...


and then we thought well lets try the two screen thing so we grabbed a 160 screen and reburned it and just did this to the 230 screen



and the opposite to the 160 screen.....

make since? 

Nick

[Rocfrog]

Funny thing I got from your place is that your powers to be let you use expensive pellons for test printing yet balk at something that would actually help you seriously improve the work flow. Pellons suck, expensive and not the same substrate material as what you are actually going to print on. They are great tho if one plans on keeping printed samples of everything they do.

If your boss's are not physically present then if I were you I would spend the time needed getting these things worked out, it will help you out and maybe just maybe those boss's will realize your abilities and respect your needs to whip the shop in to shape.

Paralelling that press is probably your next thing that has to change.

yep things are done pretty backwards here....

I do believe that I will try tackling the press some time this week or next. Just need to figure out what tools I need to bring in to do it.

If you parallel that press, then start using some decently tensioned screens then I promise you that your setup times will be cut in half, probably closer to 70%.  Our shop is living proof of that stat.  We had a terribly calibrated press and 10-12 newton screens and now we are lucky and have better tools for the job and we can do twice as much work as we did back then.  Before we added the regi system we were in the neighborhood of doing 50-60% more with the new press and high tensioned screens.  I promise you I'm not making this up.  I'll be glad to send your bosses the graphs that show those increases.  Oh, and no added payroll either.

I'm excited to see these changes make big differences like this!

Nick

[DannyGruninger]

Nick, when you come up to my shop tomorrow I will show you how to parallel your press as well the tools you need. It's all pretty basic but having someone explain why they are showing you will be helpful. We will get you dialed in.

[Inkworks]

To me it really looks like you are not shearing the ink very well, that screen should be scraped cleaner after a good print. My first bet is too much squeegee angle. Maybe try them so they are almost standing up straight. Failing that it could also be a too-soft or too dull of squeegee, or over-pressure on the print chopper causing the squeegee to over flex and hydroplane.

The voids you showed in your print:



Are very tough to get out once you've flashed the first print, once those voids are flashed in they are almost impossible to fill with subsequent passes, you really need to make sure the first coat is complete coverage and the mesh in your screen is clear of ink.

You're right to separate the tones from the solid colour. It's sometimes tough to see how burning more screens actually saves you time for some prints.

I'd imagine you're really gonna learn a ton with Danny, nothing beats experience.

[Admiral]

I'm assuming that was a poly gold/yellow ink right? One thing that will help a lot with printing those thick inks is warming them up and stirring them up a bit too.  If you used a 110 mesh base for the solid text then the 230 with the halftone and text you should be able to do one revolution on the press.  For shearing that ink better try steeper angle / more pressure if the squeegee isn't buckling over and consider a triple durometer squeegee (65/95/65 is what I use for poly ink).  You will probably need 2 passes still to get that underbase cleared and in the weave as well as on top but it would still be a lot better than where you are at, to get it better you will need better screens and the press better.

[mk162]

i bet a lot of it is dull squeegees.  you will never get a good clean pass with a rounded edge.

[Gilligan]

Nick, looks like you are getting some much better prints now man.

Obviously I'm sure you understand you had to do 4 passes on that before because you were using the 230 and trying to get such an opaque print.  Then I'm sure you understand why those halftones turned to dodo after crushing ink through there 4 times around.

Good EOM on some good (correctly chosen) screens and what a difference.  Getting that press into shape will be the final puzzle piece I think.


This thread has been good for sure though!  It's very easy for us new guys to not have ANY understanding of not just how but WHY some of these things make the print better and this is helping to explain those things vs "Do this".

And, thanks to EBscreens, I finally ordered me some new squeegee material.

Anyone got a good source for cheap tripple?

[mk162]

triple has only one p in it, unless you buy it from Brannon...
http://shop.spotcolorsupply.com/Squeegee-Products_c47.htm

[Gilligan]

triple has only one p in it, unless you buy it from Brannon...
http://shop.spotcolorsupply.com/Squeegee-Products_c47.htm

Looks like you can get it in both varieties.

Either way it should be spelled with THREE p's in my opinion.  Trippple p's!

[mk162]

why stop there, tttrrriiipppllleee!!!

[Gilligan]

Hey, I'm down with it.  Makes complete sense to me!