Screen Tensions....???

[Rocfrog]

Last off, check out the Ulano EZ films.  This is affordable cap film- the price per sheet is competitive with a similar direct emulsion.  If you can train your crew to apply it properly (very easy, if they can wash a window they can apply cap film) your screens will have very consistent EOM and minimal pinholes from drying in that nasty ass screen cabinet (you can even dry cap film screens upside down) and it has the long shelf life as well.  Not for wb ink and not as durable as direct emulsion but very user friendly.  Might make a good bridge as you work on better screen processes.

Ok I have never seen or heard of this stuff......but I just watched a few video's and that is cool!!! I might ahve to look further into this and see about ordering a sample pack or some to try out.

Nick

[alan802]

The EZ film is cool, but fragile and sometimes not easy for beginners from what I've seen.  I even have a hard time keeping the stencil together from time to time.  I'm not all that experienced with it though, and that could have something to do with the fragility.  The detail you can hold is awesome, and the ease of dealing with it from a coating standpoint is great for fast screen turnaround.

[Printficient]

Xenon's HD440 is Orange, 58% solids and sells for around the mid fifties.

[Prosperi-Tees]

Hey Sonny. Do you know how long your screens hold tension? What do they stabilize at?

[alan802]

Hey Sonny. Do you know how long your screens hold tension? What do they stabilize at?

I'm gonna buy a few of them and test them out.  The first look I got at them was good.  They really are the best static aluminum I've ever handled and had the highest tension.  I've got a few jobs that we repeat a few times a month and they are really simple so our newmans aren't necessary so I was going to buy a few of them and catalog the screens.  I'll give an update on them regularly as far as tension goes and how many times we reclaim them, which won't be much at all.  I'll reclaim them about every half dozen times we print that job and reburn them.

[ZooCity]

Hey Sonny. Do you know how long your screens hold tension? What do they stabilize at?

I'm gonna buy a few of them and test them out.  The first look I got at them was good.  They really are the best static aluminum I've ever handled and had the highest tension.  I've got a few jobs that we repeat a few times a month and they are really simple so our newmans aren't necessary so I was going to buy a few of them and catalog the screens.  I'll give an update on them regularly as far as tension goes and how many times we reclaim them, which won't be much at all.  I'll reclaim them about every half dozen times we print that job and reburn them.

Looking forward to this!

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2

[Rocfrog]

The EZ film is cool, but fragile and sometimes not easy for beginners from what I've seen.  I even have a hard time keeping the stencil together from time to time.  I'm not all that experienced with it though, and that could have something to do with the fragility.  The detail you can hold is awesome, and the ease of dealing with it from a coating standpoint is great for fast screen turnaround.

I did find a few other threads about it on a few other forums and it seems like it's a hit or miss product. Some people have great success with it and love it while other spend hours on end fighting it and wasting time and money. Not sure if it's right for this shop but I do think it's something I wouldn't mind looking into just out of curiosity....

Nick

[ZooCity]

The EZ film is cool, but fragile and sometimes not easy for beginners from what I've seen.  I even have a hard time keeping the stencil together from time to time.  I'm not all that experienced with it though, and that could have something to do with the fragility.  The detail you can hold is awesome, and the ease of dealing with it from a coating standpoint is great for fast screen turnaround.

I did find a few other threads about it on a few other forums and it seems like it's a hit or miss product. Some people have great success with it and love it while other spend hours on end fighting it and wasting time and money. Not sure if it's right for this shop but I do think it's something I wouldn't mind looking into just out of curiosity....

Nick

It's cap film:  emulsion poured on a plastic sheet.   Works like all the rest of it more or less but it's the only type of cap film with costs comparable to direct emulsion. 

A cap film screen will only be as durable as a direct coated screen if you use the direct/indirect method to apply the film but that's just as much work as direct coating in my opinion. 

If you apply it correctly it should work fine for a lot of what you do.  Get some sample sheets and give it a go.  I prefer to use the method of:
 
lay down a piece of mdf, about the size of the cap film sheet and smaller than the frame on a table

put a sheet of newsprint or any kind of paper on that

lay down the cap film and then slowly lay the wet screen on that, letting the capillary action draw it up. 

Let the screen rest there for just a moment so the now wetted cap film can encapsulate the mesh enough to avoid delam. 

Take a regular old window squeegee and, with very, very light pressure, skim the excess water off the film. 

Peel off the paper (it prevents the carrier sheet from sticking to the board and pulling the film off).  Throw it in the hot box and it's ready to go in like 15-30 minutes.

Using a degreaser with a wetting agent, like Ulano's Magic Mesh Prep will assist you but is not necessary, any old degreaser is fine. You want to flood rinse the screen completely and it should be pretty wet when it goes onto the cap film.

We still have a few sheets that get broke out in emergencies, it is hands down the fastest way to get a screen from degreased to coated, dried, ready to shoot. 

[Rocfrog]

Ok I thought I'd update this a little. It has been a ruff couple of months here at the shop...so I'll just do a ruff over view....

We are still battling with the rescreening company to get us correct tensions or at this point even contacting us. So we have found another source (Thanks Danny) and just started working with them, we are having similar issues (not as bad) with them as well but they seem more eager to correct the issue/problem.

As far as emulsions go, I had our MidWest rep send me a few samples to try and out of those we really liked KIWO POLYCOL ONE-COAT and have been using it lately with great results, we have good ink gaskets and our exposure times are down to 43sec! All though the new vendor is pushing Chroma Blue and is going to get us a sample of that to try.

We also finally ordered all new squeegees for the auto press and that made a huge difference!

Nick

[alan802]

The one coat and chromablue are almost identical in every way.  They expose the exact same here at our shop with our light and you can not tell which one is which when they are dried.  Right now we have screens coated with one coat and chromablue inside the dark room and nobody but me knows that they aren't the same emulsion.  When it comes to which one of those two I am using at that time is price.  I was getting the one coat for $197/5 gal for a while but the price went back up to normal.

[Rocfrog]

interesting! He was pushing it because he says it's a 1:1 coating where currently we are doing a 2:1 to get a decent ink gasket....

Nick

[Frog]

interesting! He was pushing it because he says it's a 1:1 coating where currently we are doing a 2:1 to get a decent ink gasket....

Nick

Watch out for blanket statements like that.
EOM can change with coating technique, mesh, and type of coater as well as solids content of the emulsion.
According to Alan, the two are similar, so take that salesman's spiel with a grain of salt.

[ScreenFoo]

100% with Frog--take that salesman's spiel with a grain of salt.   

Sooner or later I bet the rep will come by--Craig struck me as a rather knowledgeable but modest fellow, compared to most. 

[alan802]

Just to give you guys some idea of 1/1 versus a 2/1 coating with kiwo one coat and how far off someone is by just saying a 1/1 will give you proper EOM is this: a 205 Newman roller mesh coated 2/1 will only get you about 5 microns EOM with me and my screen guy coating.  Over the last 3 days I've coated about 100 screens with 4 different emulsions and measured the results and only a few mesh counts would have given me a sufficient EOM with a 1/1.  There are combos like Saati PHW red on 83/71, 135/48 and 150/48 and chromablue/one coat on 135/48 and 150/48 that will be close to the right EOM with a 1/1.  One coat on a 150/48 gives you about a 40-45 micron stencil with a 2/1 and that same technique will get you only 10-15 microns on a 156/64.  So the normal mesh counts that most suppliers force you to use will in no way allow you to have a decently thick EOM with a 1/1 technique.  On the open mesh counts with thin threads, yeah, a 1/1 with one coat and chromablue will give you a borderline 20% EOM but usually a 2/1 is needed even for those thin thread mesh counts. 

[GKitson]

This is a great conversation and I present another perspective on 1 on substrate side first /1 on ink well side last coating.   Consistency in coating technique is everything in achieving optimum repeatable EOM.  Kiwo One Coat & SAATI PHU will both give excellent EOM when coated 1/1, yes 1/2 coating will give increased EOM but in reality may yield little or no benefits in ink on the shirt.

With the following method, 1 /1  coating using the round edge of a scoop coater, with  a high solids 42-48% emulsion, 78 degree emulsion & mesh, 22-26% humidity controlled screen room environment,  slooooowwww manual coating stroke, dried substrate side down until no residual moisture is detectable by Aqua check, about 3 hours with 75 screens in the batch & fully exposed/shot to a 6/7 on a 21 step scale will yield on a 110/80 30N mesh 24% to 28 % EOM.  Remember to ALWAYS measure EOM on an exposed screen because unexposed emulsion is compressible and will yield inconsistent results,

If you change that to a 1/2 coating with the same parameters EOM on the 110/80 30 N mesh will increase to 60-65%.  However, this does not directly equate to increased ink on the shirt because the ink volume in AP (All Purpose) plastisol is controlled by mesh thickness more than emulsion.  Only in the area right next to the emulsion shoulder will you have an ink deposit comparable to the emulsion thickness.  This statement is different when using HD and specialty inks.

With that said 1/2 coating with high solids emulsion can lead to increased exposure times, wasted coating time, reclaim problems due to underexposed emulsion, wasted emulsion down the drain and scrumming problems while pursuing increased ink on the shirts.  I get 42-45 coated 23x31 screens per gallon with 1/2 and 55-56 per gallon with 1/1, that is a lot of emulsion difference with marginal ink on garment improvement.

Results for 140/64 30 N mesh with a 1/1 show an even higher EOM of 37-40% and a 1/2 will yield EOM in the 62-66% range.

Looking forward to more info from the trenches guys .

Kitson