Issues with stretching screens. 280 and up.

[Mattie T]

So. I'm in the middle of making some screens today, and I ran into a little issue.

110's and 156's are no problem. But I keep having problems stretching the yellow mesh 230. I can get it to about 16 or 17 newmans before it pops. Should I just stop there? I was under the impression that I needed to go to about 20.

As far as basic set up goes I've made sure there are no sharp edges, given myself enough slack, etc, etc.

I'm using an M&R Max Newton to stretch.

Matt.

[screenprintguy]

You mean Newtons? Are you corner softening? Even on ridged frames you have to do a corner softening process. Check you tube for instructional vids. Lots of guys have posted both roller frame stretching and ridged frame stretching. The guys from Spot Color supplies might be able to help, they stretch their own customer's frames.

[Mattie T]

Yeah yeah, typo. 

But yes, I am corner softening. I will check out Spot Color, however. Thanks for the advice!

[screenprintguy]

They are really nice guys and willing to help folks in the industry out. I'm sure it's a real simple fix that they have encountered in the past.

Hope it all works out for ya!!!

Mike

[mooseman]

Mechanically you are most likely doing something wrong.

We stretch 230 mesh by hand and what we see is the mesh will stretch to about 18 to 20 ish and then loose all elastisity. On a 280 you are goint too high on initial stretch at 18 - 20 ish.
Just like a new rubber band you can stretch it so far and the stretch simply STOPS, no more . We can feel this in the wrench and seer the meter quit advancing even though we are still adding more load. At this point YOU MUST STOP or the mesh will pop.

We let the mesh set for a day and return to a second tension at which time we find the tension has droped from @ 18 to @ 15.
We then can retension easily to at least 25 with no problems. We even get some up to 35 on the second stretch a day later.
 
I am not familiar with the operation of the MaxN, if you are using statics can you leave your tension on the M&R for a day or even a few hours ? You have to give the mesh time to relax before getting to max tension.
Lastly are you using quality mesh and following the mesh resommendations for 1st , 2nd and 3rd tension values?
hope this helps
mooseman

[alan802]

I guess stretching mesh for statics is different than doing roller frames.  I take our 230/48's up to 35-40 newtons within a few minutes and have no issues with them busting, but I'm on a roller master with roller frames.  The 225/40's are a little more delicate and we go to 30 newtons.  I've never seen one of those static stretchers in action to see where the differences are and why you are having issues.  Off to youtube to see if I can see something that could help.

[Mattie T]

I really wish we could switch to roller meshes, but he higher-ups don't want to spend the money..which I can understand. =/

I'm going to try mooseman's advice and stretch it a bit, and then allow it to relax and stretch again. But please, continue to give advice. I'm open to trying this from every angle. As a beginner, I'm really trying to submerse myself into the printing world as much as possible and learn as much as I can.

[ScreenFoo]

Something you can try to check if it is past the elastic memory of the mesh--put your meter on as you add tension, the needle will slowly move up--when the needle stalls, you hit the limit.

The other thing I'd wonder is where it's popping--in the middle of the mesh, or near a corner?  Seems like a lot of people have had issues with ripping like this, and mention they're softening the corners, but are still ripping near a corner.  If so, try softening the corners quite a bit more than you were before.

It depends on what mesh you're using too, but if you're not using thin thread mesh, I can't imagine it wouldn't go over twenty on the initial tension.

[spotcolorsupply]

@Mattie T... Give me a call if you get a second... I’d be happy to try to help you out!!

@screenprintguy... Thanks so much for the kind words... We do our best!!

[tonypep]

The M&R Max neuton isn't the best as it uses single bar technology comapared to a Harlacher multiple clamp like the pros use but for the $ it is isn't bad. It will cause you to need to stretch at lower tensions however. Also the mesh quality does of course have evrything do with it.
For water based printing 15 to 20 neutons will yield maximum quality and penetration and even lower for over seams and colllars). Anything more can be actually problematic. Little known fact that will probably make the tension purists nuts!

[alan802]

The M&R Max neuton isn't the best as it uses single bar technology comapared to a Harlacher multiple clamp like the pros use but for the $ it is isn't bad. It will cause you to need to stretch at lower tensions however. Also the mesh quality does of course have evrything do with it.
For water based printing 15 to 20 neutons will yield maximum quality and penetration and even lower for over seams and colllars). Anything more can be actually problematic. Little known fact that will probably make the tension purists nuts!

I'm a tension purist, but only when it comes to plastisol.  Tension isn't nearly as big a variable when it comes to waterbased/discharge printing, 15 newtons is fine as long as you don't have issues with registration.  Our discharge jobs go on whatever screen we have available where our plastisol jobs use the better/higher tension screens.  No argument from me Tony.  If we are doing all discharge and waterbased printing in the future, I'll never retension another screen most likely.  I'll still use the roller frames we have but there won't be as much maintenance involved with them that's for sure.

Now if we're talking about white plastisol ink on dark garments, there is no better tool for the job than a high tensioned roller frame, proper mesh count of course.

[tonypep]

Thats for sure Alan. I have both Neumans and also have a sanding, grinding, and stretching operation upstairs for statics. Best of bothe worlds I suppose.

[Sbrem]

We have the Max Newton for our statics ($250 at an auction 10 years ago). We actually trim the mesh away in the corners to help with that. Good unit, but if you could find a Harlacher, those are Cadillac's (BMW's) of stretchers. Also, you are trying to take the 280 too high on the initial stretch. This is where re-tensionable frames will shine. However, as someone mentioned, bring the tension up and let it sit for a few hours, then you can add more tension.

Steve

[tonypep]

BTW those will occaisionally show up at DS. Cosmex usually has them

[Gilligan]

I really wish we could switch to roller meshes, but he higher-ups don't want to spend the money..which I can understand. =/

I know you already have a stretcher so the money savings is harder to justify to them.  But you could maybe study the labor involved vs newmans.  Newmans should last practically forever without the need to put new mesh on unless it busts.  So then add into that the cleaning up of glue and the gluing that is required plus if you start to let them sit before taking them up that is another HUGE set of time they have to sit on the machine where as with a newman you can lock it down, set it aside, tension a bunch more and then the next day take them up to the next level and you can do 10-20 in a day vs 1 a day.