Unloader for RPM - Split from DTS thread in Screen Making

[ScreenPrinter123]

What about what Pierre brought up?  I know by looking at the specs they should do higher lpi and resolution versus film, but Pierre has seen one up close and says the halftones are not what he gets on film.  That's not as big of a deal for some of us, but it's just one more reason to think about it.

I think if I bought an automatic unloader for the auto it would give me a much faster ROI than a DTS machine, according to the numbers I've done so far.  I could cut one person's hours in half assuming it worked like it's supposed to and strickly comparing payroll to machine cost I would get 18 months ROI, that's pretty damn good compared to my ROI from a DTS.  I also think some of you should consider buying an automatic screen reclaimer if you really want to do more with less people.  It's really the same argument as DTS only makes more sense from an ROI perspective.  Those two machines would benefit a lot of shops more than a DTS. 

I wonder if our shop could do the work we do now and get rid of 1.5 employees, buy an auto reclaim, auto unloader and a DTS?  Does anyone know if you still have to do a lot of work on the screens when they come out of the reclaim machine?  Does anyone on this forum have one?  Might be as much justification in buying an unloader and reclaim machine as a DTS for some shops, just a thought.

Not to de-rail this thread, but, Alan, who makes an automatic unloader compatible with the RPM, or is the M&R one I see on videos compatible with other models?  If so, does it come with a pair of goggles that enable you to see the shirt before it's unloaded?     I am semi-sarcastic because not just does the unloader unload the shirts but does a quick quality control check, instead of having an auto loader and a person at the end of the dryer, 40 shirts later noticing a major pin hole.  As a two man show here, I've thought about this possibility, but have always been reticent because of that concern of a lack of a person to look at the print before removing it from the pallet -- not to mention I didn't know of any press other than an M&R that had these compatible for them.

[alan802]

The M&R would be compatible from what little I've seen.  The pallets are the only special part I think.  I'm sure someone with experience on one could correct me.  There are notches cut out of the top of the pallet where the unloader grabs the shirts.

Now, QC, we never have to worry about that because all the shirts that make it to the unload station are always perfect.   Seriously, that's a big issue.  Having QC at the end of the dryer is not an option on 72 piece jobs, 20K piece, maybe.  I used to be able to peak at the print fairly good while I was loading but I wouldn't want that to be our most important QC point.  I would bet the shops using unloaders have something in place.  I can think of a few things but nothing that I would want to put in production because it would cut into the ROI and purpose of the machine.  Maybe a nice HD camera focusing on each print with a TV in front of the unloader would work, not too expensive but that's how I would tackle the problem first, then see how well it did in real life.  I could catch shirts and look at the HD TV easily so others could do the job as well.

[alan802]

Actually I'd put the TV in front of the operator, that would be easy to put it right there where he's putting a shirt on a pallet and looking directly at the TV.  A nice 40" or bigger plasma hooked up to the GoPro that is above the unload pallet would do nicely.  Now we're cooking Jack.

[blue moon]

one of the issues that worries me about the unloader (on top of the QC) is the varying stickiness of the plattens over the run. When we first apply the glue , they are pretty sticky and I would imagine it would be pretty tough for a machine to pull them of without running into some kind of problem.

It also requires the right amount of space and correct angle for the dryer that might not be possible in every shop.

pierre

[244]

What about what Pierre brought up?  I know by looking at the specs they should do higher lpi and resolution versus film, but Pierre has seen one up close and says the halftones are not what he gets on film.  That's not as big of a deal for some of us, but it's just one more reason to think about it.

I think if I bought an automatic unloader for the auto it would give me a much faster ROI than a DTS machine, according to the numbers I've done so far.  I could cut one person's hours in half assuming it worked like it's supposed to and strickly comparing payroll to machine cost I would get 18 months ROI, that's pretty damn good compared to my ROI from a DTS.  I also think some of you should consider buying an automatic screen reclaimer if you really want to do more with less people.  It's really the same argument as DTS only makes more sense from an ROI perspective.  Those two machines would benefit a lot of shops more than a DTS. 

I wonder if our shop could do the work we do now and get rid of 1.5 employees, buy an auto reclaim, auto unloader and a DTS?  Does anyone know if you still have to do a lot of work on the screens when they come out of the reclaim machine?  Does anyone on this forum have one?  Might be as much justification in buying an unloader and reclaim machine as a DTS for some shops, just a thought.

Not to de-rail this thread, but, Alan, who makes an automatic unloader compatible with the RPM, or is the M&R one I see on videos compatible with other models?  If so, does it come with a pair of goggles that enable you to see the shirt before it's unloaded?     I am semi-sarcastic because not just does the unloader unload the shirts but does a quick quality control check, instead of having an auto loader and a person at the end of the dryer, 40 shirts later noticing a major pin hole.  As a two man show here, I've thought about this possibility, but have always been reticent because of that concern of a lack of a person to look at the print before removing it from the pallet -- not to mention I didn't know of any press other than an M&R that had these compatible for them.

The Passport unload-er is not compatible with other types of equipment other than M&R. There is logic programming that must be incorporated betwee the two for proper operation and we will not work on another manufacturers programming. There are many people who use the Passport daily with one operator and have almost zero defects due to printing. A simple mirror placed properly suffices for the operator to glance at the garment with plenty of time to react if a string or lint ball is noticed. Nutmeg mills tried two in production a couple years ago and now have over 50 presses equipped with them and most of their runs are 300 or less shirts. . Is it for everyone and every application no but there is no better way to keep printing on shore than minimizing the labor factor! Just a FYI!

[244]

one of the issues that worries me about the unloader (on top of the QC) is the varying stickiness of the plattens over the run. When we first apply the glue , they are pretty sticky and I would imagine it would be pretty tough for a machine to pull them of without running into some kind of problem.

It also requires the right amount of space and correct angle for the dryer that might not be possible in every shop.

pierre

This is not a real issue for the Passport. Remember you only have two hands to remove the shirt while the Passport has four! I have seen numerous times perfect prints turned into ovals that started as a circle due to operator error and excessive adhesive. This does not happen with the Passport and you cannot put enough glue down that the passport wont remove the shirt. At many shows we have sprayed extreme amounts of adhesive just to prove that point. Not an issue!

[blue moon]

one of the issues that worries me about the unloader (on top of the QC) is the varying stickiness of the plattens over the run. When we first apply the glue , they are pretty sticky and I would imagine it would be pretty tough for a machine to pull them of without running into some kind of problem.

It also requires the right amount of space and correct angle for the dryer that might not be possible in every shop.

pierre

This is not a real issue for the Passport. Remember you only have two hands to remove the shirt while the Passport has four! I have seen numerous times perfect prints turned into ovals that started as a circle due to operator error and excessive adhesive. This does not happen with the Passport and you cannot put enough glue down that the passport wont remove the shirt. At many shows we have sprayed extreme amounts of adhesive just to prove that point. Not an issue!

that is impressive!

So when will you start making one for the MHMs?

pierre

[alan802]

Damn, I wasn't aware it was integrated into the press but I should have.  Just didn't think about it.  I guess I was hoping it operated via sensors and not within the press.

[tonypep]

They had five at Echo/Sweat Equity. Didn't use the mirrors but should have. They had many pallets of misprints. I visited for a week and was amazed. They were running multiple layers of density which was all the rage back then. Problem was with three flashes on each auto (6), the inks fell like a bad souffle. Didn't catch till the back of the dryer. The press techs would try to fix on the fly which would make things worse.
Lot of stories there but I'll leave it alone.

[244]

They had five at Echo/Sweat Equity. Didn't use the mirrors but should have. They had many pallets of misprints. I visited for a week and was amazed. They were running multiple layers of density which was all the rage back then. Problem was with three flashes on each auto (6), the inks fell like a bad souffle. Didn't catch till the back of the dryer. The press techs would try to fix on the fly which would make things worse.
Lot of stories there but I'll leave it alone.

Yea problem there was not related to the takeoff.

[244]

one of the issues that worries me about the unloader (on top of the QC) is the varying stickiness of the plattens over the run. When we first apply the glue , they are pretty sticky and I would imagine it would be pretty tough for a machine to pull them of without running into some kind of problem.

It also requires the right amount of space and correct angle for the dryer that might not be possible in every shop.

pierre

This is not a real issue for the Passport. Remember you only have two hands to remove the shirt while the Passport has four! I have seen numerous times perfect prints turned into ovals that started as a circle due to operator error and excessive adhesive. This does not happen with the Passport and you cannot put enough glue down that the passport wont remove the shirt. At many shows we have sprayed extreme amounts of adhesive just to prove that point. Not an issue!

that is impressive!

So when will you start making one for the MHMs?

pierre

Too many M's in the name for that to happen.

[ebscreen]

Couldn't a simple camera/computer be setup to check print quality on these things? IE first approved print, click camera, computer uses that image to compare further prints before pulling substrate. One of the benefits of our beloved process is its (desired) consistency.

Probably along the same lines as an auto coater and reclaimer, as in using technology where a human would work better. It would probably stop the press for a wrinkle on the edge of the shirt every ten shirts and the pressman would hate it and disconnect it and put it in the back room, etc.

That said, if anyone makes one I would like to name it.