Discharge Black?

[Itsa Little CrOoked]

I get in incomplete mixing troubles, not with activator or pigment, but with adding RFU white when called for by the formula. The CCI D-Base will mix in with lumps, causing white steaks, when added to D-Base, if PC pigments are added before the white. I start out with the white first when required, "reducing" it with some clear base before adding pigments. but I never use machine mixing. After the mix sits, activated, for 20 minutes or so, I stir again and go to press. I get along with that method okay, but adding CCU white AFTER the pigments, will mess it up every time. YMMV...

[Screened Gear]

I get in incomplete mixing troubles, not with activator or pigment, but with adding RFU white when called for by the formula. The CCI D-Base will mix in with lumps, causing white steaks, when added to D-Base, if PC pigments are added before the white. I start out with the white first when required, "reducing" it with some clear base before adding pigments. but I never use machine mixing. After the mix sits, activated, for 20 minutes or so, I stir again and go to press. I get along with that method okay, but adding CCU white AFTER the pigments, will mess it up every time. YMMV...

Ok call me a newbie, What is CCU white? Is that just the pigment white?

[Itsa Little CrOoked]

Whoops.....

No that's just ME entering a post from my smartphone. Smart doesn't refer to the one who pays the bill or carries the device. I meant CCI white.  You probably know all this: but CCI is marketing a base which they call D-Base (I just ordered 5 more gallons) but they also have a WHITE ink (RFU--Ready For Use) which they call D-White. You can add activator and a little water and go to press.  I'm a big fan of the CCI White.

So....CCI, not CCU. Duh..... So sorry. I'm just gonna leave it wrong in my above post. It'll at least make sense that way.

[tonypep]

Cordless blender works as well. You do not need to homogenize

[brandon]

Hey hey,
Yes, doing testing this week and then going into production next week with some runs of a few hundred here and a few hundred there. I am sure everything will be fine. Will post again soon!

[JmanRT]

activating black will a lot of times blow out your color and make the ink turn a grayish color. I have run into the same issue with the water base black i primarily use so when printing on reds neons etc. you can use matsui spot black. great for printing on bright colors
-Jeremiah

[ZooCity]

This post piqued my interest so, yesterday (working on Sunday...booo!) I was running a one color black on Red AA 2001 and did a brief WB v. plastisol show down. 

150/48 coated 2/1 Thin edge with Aquasol HV. 

I used a bucket of QCM (Jantex) Spot Black for the WB since it is the most viscous black ink we have, it's basically "gloppy" in consistency, reminds me of some other craft inks out there like Jacquard.  Double hit pull stroke with a 60 duro blade to ensure that my tired hands weren't affecting the outcome.

Then, I cleaned out the WB and did a one hit of Wilflex Epic Matte Black, push stroke through the same screen.  This is a bit more ink than I would typically lay down but, in fairness, the WB got a double hit so I'll give the plastisol a little more open area too.  It was not excessive in ink deposit and definitely ensured the plastisol bridged the fabric completely.  I have, in the past, used a thin coated 150 for bigger areas of dark ink on lights and especially for longer runs.  All that is just b/c I'm printing manually, it would be different on an auto.

Anyways, same screen, same shirt, 2 inks, both printed "correctly".  Wash tested and they both look great but the WB wins for softer hand and rich, matte black appearance.  The plastisol, which I might add is a very nice black, looks great too but has a touch of sparkly gloss and, of course the hand.  I'm going to wash this thing about 10-20 cycles and then post pics to really see.

My conclusion- WB black should cover fine if the ink has enough body and full penetration/saturation is achieved.  It brings up a point though...

I believe the comments that you need to activate the Sericol black may come from the fact that discharge, unlike regular WB, uses the activating properties of the ZFS agent to wick pigment into the fiber ends. I didn't have time but would like to see what Sericol Black at a low % activator does.  I have seen fibrilation issues with unactivated Sericol black, especially if it is stepped on.  I've also seen light fibrilation from Sericol colors ran unactivated.  Some WB perhaps uses a different approach to encapsulate the individual fibers or has chemistry that allows it to do so without a discharge agent.   Sericol colors, as much as I would like them to be, may not be the go to for non-discharge printing and perhaps the black is best reserved as a mix color in the system and not a stand alone.   I'll find out more when I start trialing the CCI pigments with their X-base (not the DC base as that would be about the same as the Sericol).  I'm thinking that the base makes the difference and a DC specific base needs or at least "likes" to be activated to perform whereas normal WB bases do not require this.

I'm just speaking from observation and purely bullshitting so if someone knows the real skinny, chime in.

[Screened Gear]

I'll find out more when I start trialing the CCI pigments with their X-base (not the DC base as that would be about the same as the Sericol).  I'm thinking that the base makes the difference and a DC specific base needs or at least "likes" to be activated to perform whereas normal WB bases do not require this.

I'm just speaking from observation and purely bullshitting so if someone knows the real skinny, chime in.

X-base is a waterbase extender not a base. Can it be used as a base with pigment? I didn't think it had the binding agents in it, or as much. I was told to mix pigments into the d-base to make waterbase inks. (not activator)

[ZooCity]

Ok, looks like X-Base is now "W-Base".  I had a qt of the X sent to me awhile ago, probably the same or very similar.  From the TDS:

W-Base is a clear base for waterbase printing. W-Base is designed to be used with pigment systems or as an extender for standard waterbase colors.

I suppose you could also use this to extend but I don't extend WB inks ever, maybe if I had a mix used for a previous run that was loaded at max pigment and I only needed half of that for a job then sure, I'd add more base but that's it.  Even then, I'd rather drop the coin on the pigments than deal with color issues.

[Screened Gear]

I just looked on CCI website. Didn't know they added stuff. They now have W-base, pure white, spot black and a retarder. I guess on my next order I will have some new stuff to try.

[ZooCity]

Yeah I'm pumped to check out their Pure White as a top color over DC for white on "problem garments" and Spot Black when the QCM/Jantex gravy train runs out of track.  In case folks weren't aware, there is QCM/Jantex stock out there for stupid cheap right now.   

CCI's product has been stellar for us so far.  Looking forward to whatever else they got but hope they don't muck up the offering with too many products doing the same damn thing, ahem, all their chemical lines.

[Inkworks]

Yeah I'm pumped to check out their Pure White as a top color over DC for white on "problem garments" and Spot Black when the QCM/Jantex gravy train runs out of track.  In case folks weren't aware, there is QCM/Jantex stock out there for stupid cheap right now.   

Shhhhhhh.....

[ebscreen]

I just looked on CCI website. Didn't know they added stuff. They now have W-base, pure white, spot black and a retarder. I guess on my next order I will have some new stuff to try.

Mother effer! I was on there Friday as I need to place an order and was looking at the new WR emulsions. I swear
none of the waterbased stuff was on there.

Whereas most companies under-produce their products and over-hype/market them (just called to tell you about....)
CCI seems to do the exact opposite.

[Itsa Little CrOoked]

Zoo, what did you mean, "stepped on" three posts back?

[ebscreen]

Stepped on usually means a color that is printed earlier in the sequence and has additional colors printed after it. One of the hindrances that requires greater attention to variables in our beloved little process. Moreso with plastisol.