Too big for their shoes

[tonypep]

Companies like those are the 800 lb gorilla to be sure. You just need to know how to manage your customer which can be an aquired skill. Interestingly enough they flew me and our sales rep and artists out to cali to ride the rides, visit the park, and take notes on new design. It was uber cool to see how things work behind the scenes.

[Dottonedan]

That is unique that they would cover your cost to come out and do research. They (in the past) did not do that for most unless they "really thought they needed you".  This is a good thing in most all cases for business. Knowing what I know, I can see only one reason why they would do this. Again, this is good but it comes with some need for more isight.


Feel free to call me directly. I would be happy to fill you in on a few things that will have a great impact and improve your business with them at the same time. For free even. No charge.

[mk162]

Same thing happened with the 1996 Olympics.  We cranked shirts out night and day running only 2 shifts, it was 12 on 12 off for 2 weeks.  We never got paid.  About 36K in work.

That hurt.

[ebscreen]

Are there very many other industries where price is dictated by the purchaser and not the vendor?
WalMart and their price point Vlassic pickles comes to mind, but nothing else I can think of.

BS if you ask me.

[blue moon]

Same thing happened with the 1996 Olympics.  We cranked shirts out night and day running only 2 shifts, it was 12 on 12 off for 2 weeks.  We never got paid.  About 36K in work.

That hurt.

WOW, who stiffed you on that one?

pierre

[mk162]

Hanes.

[Frog]

Are there very many other industries where price is dictated by the purchaser and not the vendor?
WalMart and their price point Vlassic pickles comes to mind, but nothing else I can think of.

BS if you ask me.

Big box stores in general. One of the reasons that many times, an almost identical model of television or lawnmower may not be.

I heard a guy from Snapper years ago talking about how outfits like Walmart not only expect a lower price, but that that price must keep dropping on subsequent contracted orders!
The Snapper guy was saying that they had to stop being a vendor because they didn't want to put their name on the product as it had more and more corners cut to be able to still make a profit.

[ebscreen]

Big box stores in general. One of the reasons that many times, an almost identical model of television or lawnmower may not be.

I heard a guy from Snapper years ago talking about how outfits like Walmart not only expect a lower price, but that that price must keep dropping on subsequent contracted orders!
The Snapper guy was saying that they had to stop being a vendor because they didn't want to put their name on the product as it had more and more corners cut to be able to still make a profit.

I don't think I like this model of business/capitalism. That Snapper said no brings them up quite a few notches in my eyes.

Actually they were pretty high up as is. My buddy got an old (like 1970's) ride on mower of theirs and the thing just keeps on
going. Sat outside for who knows how many years.

Which makes me wonder about all of those good 'ol boys in the midwest shopping at Walmart.
They must know better?

[ZooCity]

mk, how was Hanes able to back out on their PO?  That's crazy.  Not to dig up bones, just curious. 

I worked at a greenhouse/perennial farm years and years ago and Home Depot would place sets of PO's for their stores in the region, ahead of season of course, you have to grow the plants, and, when it came time to deliver they would try to reject the delivery. Presumably, they ordered from multiple vendors and had lower sales than expected on petunia baskets or whatever.  The guy that owned the small operation I worked for strong armed them into accepting the deliveries and paying as a PO, written or verbal, in that state was legal justification to recover the payment so long as you delivered.  I guess HD threw a bunch of small manufacturers who weren't as savvy or as flexible out of business backing out on large POs.  In our case, if we couldn't get one of the deliveries through we lost some dirt, labor and hot house time, not a huge COGS there like with T shirts or drill bits, etc.   This was early-mid 2000s. 

[Get Shirts]

I too would like to know how Hanes stiffed you on that PO.  I think more than a few owners on this board could benefit from the experiences of the big boys on here.  I want to know how to profit from those jobs, please share.

[ebscreen]

I've been told by a few folks that when you're printing for the big places, Macy's, JC Penny, etc., that
it's standard practice to pull cancellations, hurry up and waits, wait till the last minute so you can't meet your
contracted deadline so they don't owe you as much, etc. Purposefully doing whatever they can to pay you as little
as possible, as opposed to just being horribly disorganized.

I'm also curious as to how one deals with this. I would guess that a huge amount of capacity and flexibility
(OP on this thread 10K pieces in one day if I'm not mistaken) is the only way to beat them.

It's ridiculous in reality. They want what we do, but they aren't willing to pay for it. Or pay us anyways.
They'll pay the hell out of some freight though.

[JBLUE]

The hardest part is dealing with these guys is the floating of money. We never had an issue of non pay but when they delay it from net 60 out to 120 or more money can get tight. For example Tilly's pays on net 120 so when you work with someone that is in their store you have to be aware of it. Especially when they are one of the bigger lines at the store. It can be profitable but it can get stressful waiting for the money to come it. It is just part of the game if you ant to play with them.

The best thing to do is document every little thing. Even the quick call to check for status of payment. Get a name, number, email, and anything else you can get from the person you talk to. It is just part of doing business with them.

[Frog]

It's ridiculous in reality. They want what we do, but they aren't willing to pay for it. Or pay us anyways.
They'll pay the hell out of some freight though.

Perhaps it's that 1% corporate mentality. Sharing the wealth with Frog Prints or East Bay Screen is not in the cards as it is with shuffling money between big boys like Disney and UPS or Nike and Fed Ex or other similar big buck buddies.

I have worked in shops that were so starry eyed to get a contract with a perceived prestigious client, that they didn't even do their homework to see that they weren't even making any money! It took the boss' accountant to eventually point it out.

[brandon]

It's ridiculous in reality. They want what we do, but they aren't willing to pay for it. Or pay us anyways.
They'll pay the hell out of some freight though.

Perhaps it's that 1% corporate mentality. Sharing the wealth with Frog Prints or East Bay Screen is not in the cards as it is with shuffling money between big boys like Disney and UPS or Nike and Fed Ex or other similar big buck buddies.

I have worked in shops that were so starry eyed to get a contract with a perceived prestigious client, that they didn't even do their homework to see that they weren't even making any money! It took the boss' accountant to eventually point it out.

Exactly. Took the accountant to point it out. Where is the owner/owners in that situation? Numbers don't lie and Big Names don't mean crap if you are not making money. I would much rather go camping with my dog than come in and work all weekend to just break even or no money at all

[mk162]

Sorry for the delay, I had to return a purchase before 6 yesterday.

Here's what happened...this is a condensed version...

We were subcontracted to print genuine Olympic shirts.  We went through all the BS with the hangtags and that junk.  Well, an exec at Hanes decided that all the shirts for the Olympics MUST be purchased through 1 distro, the one he setup...the company name was his initials.  The shirts were 50% higher than any other distro.  The person who licensed us was buying them from a regular distro, they were the same exact shirts, not one thing was different.  So, for the first 10 days of the Olympics all of our prints went into a warehouse thanks to a cease and desist.  We didn't know what was going on until after the we finished printing.  The folks we printed for went under, so there was nowhere to go.  They took Hanes to court, but they just drug it out and he couldn't afford that.

We did get some equipment from the other company that we sold off, some we kept.  We still lost enough to buy a nice BMW though(at least back then).