POLL. How do you prefer to be charged for separations?

[Dottonedan]

This poll is closed to the viewing audience as it's just for my business needs. Results will be available to those members who participated in the poll on Jan 1st. 2013 When I advertise any changes base don results.




I am at a cross roads with separation pricing methods and need your feedback.


With me, some jobs you get a price break on and many would not even notice. I charge no more than what it takes to complete the job at a decent rate. It's the same theory as a printer charging less for more shirts ordered.


While it's easier to quote a flat rate, It's not always (cost efficient) for you nor I. My response time for getting back to my customers for a quote is less than one hour on average.


Example, A printer doesn't want to charge the same flat rate for 30 shirts as he/she does for 300 shirts. You'd start to lose customers. Amazingly enough, I find that over the last few months, I've apparently lost an amount of separation work that I don't want to lose due to price. I'll have to figure something out. It's not good math to me, but people are buying into the flat rate process.



Other separation services charge a flat rate of $50.00 or $90.00 No matter how many colors, some charge $15.00-$20.00 per color, no matter the difficulty or number of colors.  My average cost comes out to about $16.66 per color. My average hourly rate comes out to about $40.00 per hour.


It seems I'm back to comparing my hands on approach and personal assistance by phone or email, providing the most cost efficient suggested print method... to fighting the flat rate separators that handle the jobs through automated separations processes.


Some 3 color jobs are simple and should be charged that way. I just charged $35.00 for one job that was easier to do than average. Most that come to me, need more attention and I assist them with that. Other separators are just not available to do that or are not qualified to provide that type of information. Maybe it's more cost efficient for them to not go back to a job they did... to walk someone new to a process through it, but thats what I do. Most all revisions are free till we get it right if we ever need to revise or come up with another option.


I am not seeing that people are seeing these benefits. It is possible that it's more business like, to just do the job and let you handle any additional needs on your own?  That is more efficient to me of course, but that leaves my customers and friends out in the dark.


Should I charge a flat rate and call it a day?


Thank you for taking the time to participate.
Dot-Tone-Dan

[Denis Kolar]

I like them free, I do not like to be charged

[inkman996]

While it may be inefficient for you it is easiest for us to have a flat fee. We can't go to our customer and say we don't know what the art charges are going to be till approved we would lose more work that way. We have to quote our customers in the beginning and stick to it.

[balloonguy]

I like a per color flat rate. That way I can anticipate cost and quote a client without having to wait. I know that may not be a precise for you but some jobs will be easier and you will make a better margin, some will be hard and even the curve.

[whitewater]

When i give  quote I would like to give one asap..Sometimes an hour is too long...

I'm not sure if this would work or not, have a couple of different examples shown..something like "this one would be $20, something along these lines would be $100, something like this $200...yes there are alot of variables that come in to play, but as printers we can look at something and say, well thats a pita, so it would be this price....

This way i could give an approx quote to the customer right away..sort of what i do with embroidery, say the digitizing would be $45 or under because you are not sure until its actually done....

Just an idea so no ones is losing out....

Maybe that way is just to much to do?

[Denis Kolar]

I was kidding. Per color sounds good to me.

[Dottonedan]

While it may be inefficient for you it is easiest for us to have a flat fee. We can't go to our customer and say we don't know what the art charges are going to be till approved we would lose more work that way. We have to quote our customers in the beginning and stick to it.

I agree and feel that is a given. What I do, is I always quote a price back to you as soon as you send me the image to quote on. It is based on the difficulty of the file. I know how long it's going to take or how difficult it is by looking at the art file. My price does not change from that initial quote.


I have had an occasional surprise when someone send a jpg to quote from, then I get the actually art file and find out that it is vastly different. Then, I call or email the customer and present the issues and discuss if we have room to re-negotiate if needed. In any case, the customer always knows before hand.

[Sbrem]

Dan, I think you need to get your printing going so supplement your separation and art services, since most don't want to pay you what you're worth, which is a lot due to your high skills. But if they are willing to settle for automated, untweaked files that they can't tell the difference from anyway, you don't have a lot of room that I can see. As you know, we do our own work here, so it's a bit easier to quote our customers. If folks want an automatic answer that works for you sometimes, doesn't seem so hot if you're getting a lot of 6 color plus files and only getting the same money as a 2 color file, or no compensation for artistic composition. So maybe the per color would work best for you, sort of a la carte?

Steve

sometimes they want a quote without showing you art too, so we tell them that we'll have to quote worst case scenario so we aren't hurting ourselves; we can always discount afterwards, but certainly not upfront.

[Command-Z]

Another artist's perspective, though my bizness model may differ slightly from yours. Most of my seps are of my own designs.... 95% of my jobs start with design/illustration. I do seps of others' art, but not a lot. Probably the ones you can't take 'cause you're too busy. 

There's always a basic flat rate in my head, but when I do get a sep job, I quote based on how tough the job looks like it will be to sep. That is, how much time will be spent. A photo with lots of subtle shading requires a completely different technique than a few flat colors with a bit of shading here and there. More colors cost more, yes, but in the end, a quote needs to reflect how much time it will take to do.

Also, the state of the art I receive comes into play. If I have to make masks and re-layer a JPEG into a PSD, that will cost a bit more than if I get a PSD with layers.

What sometimes helps is when the client gives me a budget. If there's some budget leeway, I can get surgical and really make sure every area of the design seps well. If they're on a low budget, I do the best I can in a shorter amount of time.

In the end, I think the rates come out tho be the same either way... what the market can bear and the client can afford.

[Dottonedan]

Another artist's perspective, though my bizness model may differ slightly from yours. Most of my seps are of my own designs.... 95% of my jobs start with design/illustration. I do seps of others' art, but not a lot. Probably the ones you can't take 'cause you're too busy. 

There's always a basic flat rate in my head, but when I do get a sep job, I quote based on how tough the job looks like it will be to sep. That is, how much time will be spent. A photo with lots of subtle shading requires a completely different technique than a few flat colors with a bit of shading here and there. More colors cost more, yes, but in the end, a quote needs to reflect how much time it will take to do.

Also, the state of the art I receive comes into play. If I have to make masks and re-layer a JPEG into a PSD, that will cost a bit more than if I get a PSD with layers.

What sometimes helps is when the client gives me a budget. If there's some budget leeway, I can get surgical and really make sure every area of the design seps well. If they're on a low budget, I do the best I can in a shorter amount of time.

In the end, I think the rates come out tho be the same either way... what the market can bear and the client can afford.

Agree and very similar to how I work. Although, I'm apparently not (that buy) since I'm assuming I am missing out on some work and looking for more sep work.   My current 3 business day turn time is not based on me being stacked (as some apparently assume), but rather it's based on allowing room to take on more work every day as well as the rush orders. It leaves me a window of opportunity. It's like printers, many have a 5-10 business day turn time. They may not be stacked all that week, but having a standard turn time allows them room to take on jobs that come in that need it faster and customers don't expect to get there shirts back same day.


In regard to creating a design and separations, The sep price is "typically" included when or if I am creating a design. Never quoted separately and rarely if at any time, bumped up in price to also do the seps. To me, when doing art, the seps is part of my design process. Seps are almost built as I create. So when I charge $400.00 for a finished separated high end design, it's including the seps.

[Command-Z]

In regard to creating a design and separations, The sep price is "typically" included when or if I am creating a design. Never quoted separately and rarely if at any time, bumped up in price to also do the seps. To me, when doing art, the seps is part of my design process. Seps are almost built as I create. So when I charge $400.00 for a finished separated high end design, it's including the seps.

Yep. Me too. When I give an estimate for a job, I mention price includes seps. The time frame and the art itself will also determine how I do the job... painting in Photoshop channels directly, or layered and masked with seps in mind.

[Dottonedan]

Just an update.  As you can see here by the results. It's almost equal on the opinions of how it best fits your needs.


I have been now, and for a long time since then switched from charging based on difficulty to charging (per color).


Thanks
Dan

[myseps]

Same here, I charge per color as well.  It seems to work the best for most clients.