"He who marches out of step hears another drum." ~ Ken Kesey
Not going to get involved in this mess. I know I can use both in a profitable and efficient manner. Just want to let you know about a new product from Nazdar called Panel frame Quick Frames. Rigid frames that use a tensioning tool and I believe no glue. Now I have no idea what tension levels can be achieved that would certainly depend on mesh and other variables but I am intrigued so I am having one sent and will report back.cheers tp
I'm not arguing that you can't get a decent print using static alums, I've done it, seen it done many times, but it's not going to be as good as it would have been through a higher tensioned frame system, and that includes benefits throughout the entire print process (ink deposit, consumption, pressure, speed, setup times, etc.). You'll never learn how to REALLY properly print through 16 newton screens because you're going to be using probably 40-100% more pressure, probably multiple strokes, double the ink consumption, high off contact, slow strokes, I could go on and on.To argue against the benefits of using high tension screens only tells me that the one doing the arguing doesn't print every day
I don't care how tight things got around here, we'd never spend another dime on a static alum.
I don't have anything against those who use statics or even wood or even those who argue that they are fine for what we do, but I'd be willing to bet a good chunk of change that if those shops switched to retens or even the shurloc ez's for an entire year, 90%+ would not go back to stretch and glue frames.
I'm assuming that most of us have used at least 2 different types of screens, so how many of you that have used retens for an extended period of time would consider going back to static or wood frames?
the reason there are so many used newmans out there isn't because statics are that good, it's because Don screwed up and made a product that will literally last forever. And unfortunately, just because you use retens, it won't assure that your business is a success and that you won't be selling off all of your equipment 3 years after you started. The percentage of used roller frames on the market that people are selling because they are moving to stretch and glue is probably extremely small.
I agree wholeheartedly with most of the points you've made but still think, in caveman terms:Panels expensive, mesh cheapPanels convenient, mesh less convenient
Doug, I think you might've mis-read a few things from me:You are assuming there is some “debate” on this issue, you would assume I would worry about being wrong, or that I and others are not getting some value from the exchange of views.Ok, well I'm not actually sure what you meant by this. I think we're all getting something out of most conversations like this, it gets the gears turning if nothing else. And yeah, I do believe there is some "debate" on the issue, this thread being a fine case in point as well as others. You seem to be the type of man who would live more by an Emerson-esque mantra than one of being worried about being wrong in the exploration of things.
What I posted are my exact prices- mesh by the yard from my supplier and panels at 25+ from shur-loc. It could be my odd frame size of 25x30 costs a bit more to produce. Those are just hard numbers- the panels are significantly more expensive in up-front cost.
They will not last forever in some shops - you should see some of the abuse I see out there.
Panel frame "hybrids", to me, have no benefits over glued static frames. No way to work harden and max out the tension? No thanks.
Panels on roller frames? Once my business grows to the point where I hire someone to stretch screens, I will give them a long look. Until then the bolt mesh works wonders in my hands.
I am not so sure there is any real indication that the facts of higher tension exist and that the benefits range from essential to miniscule. I predict this is going to reappear again and again it will focus on specific application.
Quote from: DouglasGrigar on June 03, 2011, 04:23:08 PMI am not so sure there is any real indication that the facts of higher tension exist and that the benefits range from essential to miniscule. I predict this is going to reappear again and again it will focus on specific application.Am I reading this right? Big opening with lower (but proper) tension is possibly more important than high tension? SHould we start another topic?