Roller frame mesh bulk, shurloc panel or Newman panel?

[Socalfmf]

Mike

if you have guys in the back of the house sitting around doing nothing then the front of the house needs cleaning...NOONE in the back should ever be just waiting for something...if so, Management and the front end has failed...

sam

[screenprintguy]

welllll, if we are cutting and stretching mesh we ain't sittin now are we. hehhee I know what you mean. I know the time will come soon where it will make sense for the expense, but you yourself have given the advice to us, spend only what you need to. 

[alan802]

I stretched up 3 sefar panels on Weds and I must say I really like them.  I'm crunching the numbers and I have a price in mind where they need to be to make it cost effective to use the panels versus bolt mesh.  The shurloc panels were 3 times the cost of a similar bolt mesh and according to my numbers it only makes sense to use panels if they are around 2 times the cost or slightly less. 

I took the 195/55's up to 40 newtons and then wrote down the tension levels every couple hours to see how well they held initial tension.  They all settled in around 33-34 newtons after sitting around for 24 hours.  From what I can tell, the corners are a little tighter than shurloc makes theres, and I was nervous getting the sefar panel up to 40 cause the corners were starting to scream. 

[screenprintguy]

Alan, how deep do you pull your fabric when you soften the corners. I started leaving less excess mesh so that the rollers are about 1/4 inch of mesh all around once stretched, and for softening, I go 4" in on each corner and then soften the mesh the entire thickness of the roller till it touches the table. By doing that, I've been able to stretch to 50, and then after they relax from a use in production, re-stretch back to 50 and be safe from popping.

[alan802]

I push the mesh down till it touches the roller master with really high tension mesh, on the ones that can't get above 30, I don't soften quite as much.  Do you use the channel clamps to hold the mesh at the corners so you don't soften too far?  I only got 3.5" from the corner, measuring from where the roller tube enters the corner piece.  I'm not sure how much .5" will change things but I got the 3.5" from Don and Bill so I've never strayed from that.  It sounds like we are almost identical in stretch technique with the 3.5 and 4 being the only difference.

[ScreenFoo]

I stretched up 3 sefar panels on Weds and I must say I really like them.  I'm crunching the numbers and I have a price in mind where they need to be to make it cost effective to use the panels versus bolt mesh.  The shurloc panels were 3 times the cost of a similar bolt mesh and according to my numbers it only makes sense to use panels if they are around 2 times the cost or slightly less. 

I took the 195/55's up to 40 newtons and then wrote down the tension levels every couple hours to see how well they held initial tension.  They all settled in around 33-34 newtons after sitting around for 24 hours.  From what I can tell, the corners are a little tighter than shurloc makes theres, and I was nervous getting the sefar panel up to 40 cause the corners were starting to scream. 

Did they drop most of the tension the first couple hours? 

I'm wondering if you have a set time for relaxation before you torque bolts--what little experience I have with pneumatic stretching says there will be a huge difference in stability if you stretch and immediately lock down/glue vs. waiting ten or twenty minutes.

Screenprintguy:  I do pretty much what you're saying for 75% of what I stretch, high mesh I do that initially, and give it just a little more softening after a few cycles, but before I tape it up.  Never measured how far in to go--I just use the half vinyl squeegee and do it like I'm 'chopping carrots', as they say, to let out more mesh near the corner than the other end of the tool.  Rarely have the mesh slipping past the end.

[alan802]

I was going to do a video of me stretching but I think the videos of the newman guys doing it is exactly how I do it.  It takes me 10-12 minutes to do one with bolt mesh.  It takes me less than 4 minutes with a shurloc panel and about 4 minutes to do a sefar panel.  It takes a few minutes to get the mesh in the panels perfectly and then I take my time with getting the tension up.  I don't just hit the switches and then I'm done, I gradually bring it up to tension.  If you watch the video of John doing one I am slightly slower than that.  I takes me longer to soften the corners and I bring the mesh up to tension a bit slower and "walk" the rollers outward.

[screenprintguy]

Alan, I just measured where you are talking about and it ends up 3.5", I was counting the extra space, but you are right, it's really from where the mesh locks in. I usually put the clips in at the ending point like the Newman videos show, but I've gotten to where I can put a finger on the mesh and press where that clip would go and hold for a couple jiggles of the softening tool. I just use a 3m squeegee that you would use for vinyl sign application. I noticed though, I have two back there and 1 is a little shorter than the other. I notice once over 180 mesh, gotta be a little more careful, but I'm not trying to achieve a 60 newton stretch. With my Diamondback press and how it likes to fight itself between chopper pressure and the boards and print arms flexing, 40 newtons is a nice tension, even 30 works, but 40 keeps things nice for prints that are not more than 14" wide, if I go wider, gotta go to a sloppy screen in the 15-20 newton range from the flex of the composite pallets. We are going to change and order a new set of aluminum pallets to replace those after new years, just not sure if we want to go with the heavy M&R boards or honey combed alum boards from action. I lean to the M&R boards for the guarantee and all.

[jsheridan]

You'll get a different answer from everyone and everyone is right when you think about it.  I've always said you can pay yourself and/or your employees to load your mesh or you can pay shurloc to do it...choice is yours. 

If you have the time, start with bolt and learn it.  Make a system you can train someone else to learn on and do it as well. 

No time to learn?  Employees not going for this?  Don't want to learn this junk, just want to print at higher tension?   Go with panels. 

The only thing you give up with panels is control and then some extra cash out of your budget.   Stretching a shur-loc on a roller master is deeeluxe, very easy to do and a low rate of failure.

Stretching bolt mesh is easy too and, personally, I enjoy doing it.

Nothing to add really other than a +10

I like to load bolt mesh personally as well. This removes a number of variables from my pre-press equation.

[islandtees]

Bolt mesh for us only. We tried the panels and they are way to expensive. We did a comparison with my screen maker. His time to build a frame with mesh and one to build a panel. It was way cheaper to build from bolt mesh figuring in his time and product materials.
This is based on our shop and not anyone else. Everyone has a different opinion on this subject and what works for your shop.