CCI pigments are here...

[Screened Gear]

I just got my CCI waterbase pigments this week. Its 14 colors in 8 ounce bottles (12 colors with a white and black). They are the Pantone "Basic Colors". This is the same way offset printers mix Pantone colors. They have a formula to figure out the mix. All the formulations are in your pantone book next the the swatches. most of the formulas are only 2 or 3 colors you have to mix.

For example
pantone 485 (red) is yellow 50.0 and Rubine 50.0 This is the pigment load you need for 1000 grams of ink.

This is the formula
yellow 50.0 / 1000 = .05 grams X ( 100 grams "amount of ink you want") = 5 grams
Rubine 50.0 / 1000 = .05 grams X ( 100 grams "amount of ink you want") = 5 grams

5 grams yellow + 5 grams rubine red = 10 grams
100 grams - 10 grams = 90 grams of base

For 100 grams of pantone 485
yellow 5 grams
rub. Red 5 grams
base 90 grams

I have an excel file already set up to do the math. I am working on getting the formulas so I can get them all in the excel file also.

Has anyone else used the CCI pigments yet?

[Prosperi-Tees]

They are CCI pigments not ICC, which is a different chemical company. Id  like to see what a red looks like now that they finalized it because I was unimpressed with the sample my rep had.

Do they have an online formula book?

[Colin]

Sounds like the formula book - IS - your pantone book.

Under each color swatch there is mixing info on how Pantone got to that color.

Did I read that correctly?

[Screened Gear]

Sounds like the formula book - IS - your pantone book.

Under each color swatch there is mixing info on how Pantone got to that color.

Did I read that correctly?

Yes that is correct. I think my first mix will be 485 red. I know from offset printing that is the most consistent red to reproduce. Not sure if that will be true with this system but its a good starting point.

The only place to get the formulations is a pantone book. As soon as I can get a digital copy I will be making an excel file software.

I am excited about using it.

[Screened Gear]

I couldn't resist mixing up a the Pantone 485. It didn't turn out. It was more of a burnt orange then Red. It really turned me off after seeing it. I wasn't sure if I did it wrong or what. To test if I was doing something wrong, I did end up mixing a Pantone 130 (golden yellow) and a Pantone 293 (royal blue) and they both turned out great.

I mixed up 100 grams of each color. Added 6 percent charge to them and then printed each on a white shirt and a black shirt. I was really surprised how the color is almost exact on the white and black. I think my results were really good.

I am interested to hear from the guys that do water base all the time and hear why the red my have not turned out

[Itsa Little CrOoked]

I can't print red with Matsui's Waterbased Discharge PC Pigment System. Sucks everytime. Tweak, test, curse, repeat.

Then enter Sericol Yellow Shade Red Texcharge..... I add some Neo Red Matsui Pigment, and go to press. 3% agent MAX with the red that is. YMMV.....

Your last post, well....that puts me off of trying the CCI pigment system, but I'm not surprised.

I'm a little bummed with discharge in general at the moment, but I'm all an manual shop, and its been a HOTT summer in Wichita.

A six color job... Wet On Wet... in 100 degree weather on my manual...well, that makes me look at the work order like a registered letter from the IRS! Maybe I'm getting old, but I just think my memory is improving.

Yellow on Black Gildans??? That's a no brainer. Gold, Green, White, REDS all day long. One color? Fine. I'm gonna discharge those. Unless its Purple, Some Greens or Royal Blue or blended tees, bring it on. But every step is harder, more time consuming, and problemmatic than plastisol. Having said that, I do it all the time.

If only I had an auto.....

[Screened Gear]

Itsa Little CrOoked,

I have some Neo Red Matsui and it makes a great red Not sure how much i add but I keep adding until it is perfect). I ran a little of that tonight. I just did 30 grams 25g base and 5 grams red or was it 8 grams. It came out nice. I am not so turned off on the CCI pigments. It did mix up 2 colors perfect. I don't plan on doing any color matching or pantone matching with the system. I am just planning on doing about 15 to 20 standard colors. I will have a pantone color for each. I hardly ever mix pantones for my clients as it is with plastisol. If I can get a good scarlet red, golden yellow, royal blue, brite blue, forest green, brite green, kelly green, black and white that will cover almost all my jobs. I also plan on only offering discharge on a select amount of colored shirts and brands. Maybe only gildan 2000s basic colors in black, red, royal blue, forest green, kelly green, navy.

Still not sure what I want to offer but I do what to move to doing discharge. Its a great product compared to layering plastic on fabric for people.

[ebscreen]

Two reasons your red might not have turned out:

1: Too much activator. Eats the pigments, can dull colors.

2: Not enough pigment. The pigment load on our reds is pretty high, %8-%10
or so.


What I am really interested in is is whether or not the pigments dry out and clog
mesh like the Rutland system. We tested the Sericol awhile back and it was a dream
but I'm reluctant to give up the control that a PC system has.

[Itsa Little CrOoked]

@ Screened Gear, here's an example of what I do with Reds:  100 grams Sericol Texcharge Yellow Shade Red + 90 Grams of Matsui Bright Base (or CCI D-Base...I don't care so much for their premium base so far) and 10 Grams of Neo Red Matsui Pigment + no more than 3% ZFS Activator + ~2-3% Fixer N and maybe 3% Printgen MG.  Boom, done. For larger batches of that red formula, I just multiply.  Every other red I've tried is too much this or too much that.  Usually Pinkish or orangeish or maybe just too dark.

I suck at red, I guess, but this one works, and when I take the shirts up front, the women don't get all whispery after which my wife gives me the stink eye.  YOU DON"T WANT THE STINK EYE.

EB, I also like to be able to tweak.  But  can't you do some of that with just the Texcharge? I don't have their entire system...yet.  The Matsui pigments seem to mix OK with the Texcharge I've used so far.

[ebscreen]

I would be worried about over pigmenting a mix and not binding all the pigment to the fabric.

[tonypep]

The comment about overactivating reds is spot on. Try 3%. And yes Sericol has a great product on their hands.

[Screened Gear]

The comment about overactivating reds is spot on. Try 3%. And yes Sericol has a great product on their hands.

I will try this next time.

[Itsa Little CrOoked]

I would be worried about over pigmenting a mix and not binding all the pigment to the fabric.

I think.... that if you stay under 10% pigment load everything is cool.  That is what I was trying for with 90 grams of additional base, + 10 grams of Neo Red.  However... Neo Red may push the 10% limit as it is a slightly different product than the Matsui PC pigments.

I will say that we have not had complaints with the red, which was NOT the case before Texcharge.

Stan

[ebscreen]

Stan:

Doh! Missed the part about adding extra base. Wise move and not a bad idea.
Still waiting to see how these CCI pigments pan out, I like a lot of their other stuff.

[Screened Gear]

Sean are you getting a pigment kit to try?