Ryont inkjet films

[blue moon]

going back to the films. . .

Did I miss something? Are both of those places selling the identical film at such a price gap? If they are the same product, the story is different, but I would imagine it was two different manufacturer and thus the price difference. I have tried several types of film and have found some of it to be real bad. We are paying significantly more for the film that works better (lower dot gain, darker stencil, less moire . . .).  All film is not created equal! Anybody thinking so feel free to give me a call and I'll explain the difference.

pierre

[Dottonedan]

and I agree your product is likely better if not much better, but that's not to say there aren't good China Printers.  Just few and far between.  I wouldn't say ALL are bad.

Spot colors they can do.  Sim process, they cannot. In fact, they are surprisingly about 20 years behind us. The large majority of Chinese screen print shops are very manual and very archaic in their process.  Part of that reason is investments into industry products needed to do the job correct as well as just not having the technology (in all cities).  What you see in Beijing is not he majority. Most are working in plants that are 100 years old and just getting state of the art power connections to where you can break out of dial up.  Grantee, all my knowledge of Chia was last experienced 3 years ago, but I'm sure it has not gotten better in the screen print industry.


They are more "technically skilled" at knocking stuff odd manually...and so they will re-draw every part of an art file. (This is more so why they prefer PDF art files....so they can print them out onto paper easily and re-draw them (by hand).  Sounds like a stretch right?  I thought so also. I thought they were (for whatever reason), lying to us.


It turns out, that they can get an art file downloaded to them much faster by receiving jpp's or PDF's (as apposed to waiting on their dial up modems) to download the large art files....that often break connection in-between downloads. So yea,.  They re-draw your art.  That can be why it looks so crappy when it comes back many times.  when dealing with such a far distance, and getting samples done, they would rather download a PDF or jpg, re-draw your complex design...and print samples. At this time, they are now just about complete with downloading your art file after your sample is sent out. So, often times, you can a sample back and they met the deadline for the buyer.  (as meeting your sample deadline is far more important than having the art work correct,)   Now, we go through about as many as 6 revisions depending on how much time we have and how desperate the buyer is to get the job done as correct as possible.  So, 6 revisions, and 3 months later, you may have an approved sample (that you are still not happy with).


That is the reality of working with china in retail.  Jpg to vector conversions is a good business for them. NOt sim process or any difficult job...and do not send them complex large art files of over 5-10mb.


I separated a job the other day for a printer here in my town....that might have got the art from some website...and had China re-draw it to vector....then had me re-separate it so that he didn't have any problems printing it.  It must have been auto traced at 2"x5" and then blown up to 12.5 wide and sent back. No curves to letters or anything. This guy was printing it just like that. This is partly why they have such a big market on jpg to vector conversions. They can use the oldest program versions never needing to upgrade to achieve your end product.

[Gilligan]

It will be interesting to see just how much margin there is and how low prices can go if film wars break out.
That's where screen suppliers may lose the edge to manufacturers and importers.

Also interesting will be if there will be any push to pay a little more for American made.

I am all for buying american at some level of a premium.  I do believe at some point though you have to really consider how much it is costing you.  There is cost and then there is retarded.  LOL.

Yes,   I can imagine thats what the owners of Weirton Steel said also.  THis is my home town. My dad worked here for w while and was laid off. Then he started his business a Dog Groomer.





http://www.coalcampusa.com/rustbelt/wv/wv.htm


http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/business/july-dec05/steel_10-27.html

Exactly Dan.

We had "Martin Mills" located about 20 mins away from us.  They were a big Fruit of the Looms factory.  After NAFTA (thanks Clinton) that whole operation go shipped off to Mexico.

Did any of you guys recognize massive savings on your FTL goods?  Didn't thinks so.  In fact I heard of local guys getting KILLER deals from them.  Prices of blanks have gone up up up... yet it's all outsourced more and more.

[GraphicDisorder]

It will be interesting to see just how much margin there is and how low prices can go if film wars break out.
That's where screen suppliers may lose the edge to manufacturers and importers.

Also interesting will be if there will be any push to pay a little more for American made.

I am all for buying american at some level of a premium.  I do believe at some point though you have to really consider how much it is costing you.  There is cost and then there is retarded.  LOL.

Yes,   I can imagine thats what the owners of Weirton Steel said also.  THis is my home town. My dad worked here for w while and was laid off. Then he started his business a Dog Groomer.





http://www.coalcampusa.com/rustbelt/wv/wv.htm


http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/business/july-dec05/steel_10-27.html

That really sucks no doubt.  It's easier to find a customer than a job!

[Gilligan]

Do you guys know what our number one export is these days?










TRASH!  We export more garbage than anything else.

[tonypep]

going back to the films. . .

Did I miss something? Are both of those places selling the identical film at such a price gap? If they are the same product, the story is different, but I would imagine it was two different manufacturer and thus the price difference. I have tried several types of film and have found some of it to be real bad. We are paying significantly more for the film that works better (lower dot gain, darker stencil, less moire . . .).  All film is not created equal! Anybody thinking so feel free to give me a call and I'll explain the difference.

pierre
Back on subject we can start with the D-Max/D-min ratio when it comes to film quality but that is a function of the ink as well.

[GraphicDisorder]

Do you guys know what our number one export is these days?

TRASH!  We export more garbage than anything else.

You mean like American Cars/Trucks? 

LOL

[Dottonedan]

What was your price on 10k 1 color?  (1 side? or 2)?  Just curious where you are at compared to the 10 times less in China.  Was the China price including shipping?  I've competed in quotes with some China work.  Time shipping was in there I was competitive and certainly the wait time with me was way better.

If a client is okay with that type of wait time then there isn't a lot you can do about it, and I agree your product is likely better if not much better, but that's not to say there aren't good China Printers.  Just few and far between.  I wouldn't say ALL are bad.

$0.38/side, single color. He was paying $0.04.

If his clients need them faster we'll have the work, but that's beside the point.
How can you even ask why China is cheaper?

That's about where I am on that, I am $.30 per side (1 color).  I was just curious.  I wouldn't even try to get the job at $.04 each either.  Was $.04 each shipping included?

When did I ask why China is cheaper, I am fully aware of why China is cheaper.  I am the son of a

One contract printer advertises .40 on an (A).  he is ASI so thats 50% or .20 to the distributor.


The contract printers I work with (u=in the US) are as such...


.25
.30
.35
.38
.40
.40
.40


Then we have Mexico, Guatemala and Honduras at around .05-.10

[RICK STEFANICK]

the guys i know in honduras would have been .20

[Inkworks]

$0.04/ sounds like a manufacturer who is printing multi-up before cutting up the material to make the bags, or printing inline for an automatic bag making line.

The only way to compete is on quantities lower than their minimum orders which are usually high numbers. Or to buy from them and resell.

if you can't beat them........

[ZooCity]

On the topic of Ryonet inkjet film I tested it and, if I recall correctly, it sucked.  In fact, I'll come right out and say that I think Ryonet is an amateur operation that doesn't understand what they're selling or what they're talking about.  I hate ordering from them but they are unfortunately our closest stocking supplier for some items.  Their service is just fine but they just don't know, for example, the difference between cold and hot peel transfer paper, things like that.  And it's things like that that can and will screw you hard at the perfectly wrong time. 

With inkjet film there's two now:  "waterproof"(milky) and "non-waterproof" (crystal clear, like a carrier sheet).  Neither have any different degree of "waterproofness" nor do they require it in any way shape or form but they clearly have different emulsions coated on the ink side. 

I'm not sure which we're talking about but will assume the waterproof variety.   Under this category I find many reselling Microjet brand which is adequate and very affordable.  We buy 14" and 17" rolls from fixxons.  I prefer higher end film but some of the methods I'm using purposefully use up or 'waste' inches of film.  For example, when imaging a gang screen like a front heart and a back I'll use a template to place the images in the right spot and leave that stretch of blank film between them so it's one film to align and affix to the carrier and register, not two.   Using film up like this saves labor but necessitates something affordable at the same time. 

The biggest thing for me with inkjet film is consistency.  If the reseller changes mfg or gets different spec'd film every time they order a lot you are going to be pulling your hair out. 

[Frog]

My understanding, and hopefully a film guy can jump in if needed, is that the "waterproof" coating is receptive to both dye and pigment inks, while the clear regular film was better for dye only.

[IntegrityShirts]

Unbeatable price on 17x22 100 pack of inkjet film.

Careful with that statement.  Support whoever you like, I have no problem at all with that, but unbeatable is a powerful word.  LOL

http://www.maverickgraphicsupply.com/store/products?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=15&category_id=1
$149

VS

http://inkjetfilm.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=5
$89

There is no security certificate on inkjetfilm.net's login or customer checkout/registration page.  I wouldn't put any personal info on a non-encrypted page like that.

[IntegrityShirts]

Also no certificate on Mavericksupply's site checkout page, ugh.  And people wonder why identities get stolen lol.  I would HOPE that both site's credit card processing page is encrypted, but I won't get that far unless I enter fake info lol.

Coastalbusiness.com has Folex films, not cheapest, not most expensive but their site has encryption at least!

[GraphicDisorder]

Ewww didn't notice that.  But, you can always call to order.