Well, sometimes mesh just bust I guess.

[alan802]

Why am I not suprised to read yet another topic about failed S threads.

Change your mesh to standard threads and don't look back.

One was an S thread, the other was a 128N at only 30 newtons.

[Gilligan]

Guess you missed the part about the last mesh that busted was Roller mesh (128n).


To everyone else trying to be helpful,

I'll agree that my guy isn't as careful as I would like him to be.  I don't THINK he's ever done anything to cause this but he very well may have.  Definitely not when it happened though as I was the one that was handling it.  Only thing I can think of is that it was possibly "injured" before this production cycle and then the heat (expansion contraction) was too much for that particular part that might have been injured.  I literally brought it in from outside, walked around looking for a good place to rest it, leaned it against an mzx (shirt side out) so nothing was touching it at all. 

As you can see it ripped in the middle.

[ScreenFoo]

I guess that was my point about doing everything yourself for a while--no matter WHEN the mesh is mishandled, it will manifest itself eventually.  Even if the mesh was mishandled before it went on the frame it will do that. 

[Gilligan]

Oh, Alan to answer your questions.

This was it's 2nd production run.

[Frog]

I mean no offense (alright, maybe a little) but we see this a lot in the bike world, where some 18 year old squid gets on a bike with over 100 horsepower, after minimal experience on the 250 he learned on.
With luck, only a few scratches, dents, and bruises, (and rips).

[Gilligan]

ouch, now I'm a squid.

Hey, I wear pants and shoes when I print... now my printer on the other hand is always barefoot and in shorts. 

[alan802]

When we were using nothing but statics, we might go an entire year without a mesh busting or damage of any kind, but since going with higher tension, we had 30+ last year.  When we were using statics, none of them busted because I was the one handling them 90% of the time and they were low tension.  Out of all the screens that we lost last year, maybe 5 of them had known reasons or busted while someone was working with them, the others nobody knows where or how they busted, they just did.  But I know exactly how they bust because I watch people mishandling screens all the time when they have no idea I'm watching, and they think they are handling them correctly.  Almost all of them that bust do so without the person knowing that they hit it on something, or something fell against it, or there is a knick in a table that it was sitting on.  But I say if a screen can make it through production one time without busting, it should make it 100 times if handled correctly.  If they all just busted for no reason, none of them would be lucky enough to survive for 5-10 years like many of ours have done. 

This is something I've been watching intently for the last 2 years or so, and I'll say that if the mesh wasn't overly tensioned, and properly softened corners and no defects in the frame to cause a tear, then 99% of the time that they fail, is because of mishandling by humans.  Frame knicks, bad corner softening, defective mesh and too much tension will bust mesh but those rarely make it more than a few minutes off the table before they bust, at least in our shop.

And on the topic of S thread versus standard, yes, S threads are way more delicate, it's not even close, but we've had standard thread and S thread fail at exactly the same rate here, with roller mesh holding up at a much higher rate.  If you stretch the S threads correctly and handle them right, they last as long as any other screen.  But if you have even a fingernail that has sharp corner, it will bust a 135/48 easily.  The only roller mesh I've had bust were 102N panels I bought from ryonet and they split on the first retension way before I got to my target tension level, so I know those were defective panels and not user error.  All 3 busted while on the roller master at 40, 35, then 30 newtons, and they should go up to 50 with no issues.

[inkman996]

In the pic the tear did not happen on the edge of the roller on either end. I agree with Alan its been mishandled some where some how. Like Alan if it was something done wrong during stretching it would manifest itself almost immediately surely not after to production cycles.

I wonder about your printer, you explained how he is horrible with a squeegee what makes you think he is any gentler with the screen? I had a guy one time that was such a hammer head he was digging the corner of the squeegee into the mesh every time he finished a print, he printed like he was mad or some thing, well abuse he was causing the mesh would not manifest itself till after reclaim and the emulsion was acting like a glue.

Also I would think with high tensions even miss handling with the scoop coater can abuse the mesh enough to weaken it, just a thought.

BTW I have a roller here it was the first one we bought about 6 years ago I stretched it and retensioned about five times its a 160 roughly 25 newtons, I have used it hundreds of times and it is still going strong.

[ZooCity]

Kevin I think you are just abusing those screens somewhere and surviving a car trip at tension is already pushing it.

Newman Roller Mesh is the most durable mesh I've ever seen, no doubt, but you pay for it.

S mesh is very delicate indeed.

Our rate of failure was/is very minimal with both.  After making a good screen it's all in the handling.

[jsheridan]

Guess you missed the part about the last mesh that busted was Roller mesh (128n).


To everyone else trying to be helpful,

Ahh.. so sorry my answer didn't fall into the catagory you were looking for which obviuosly was you looking for someone other than yourself to blame for using what has been proven to be a very problematic mesh (S thread)

As for the roller mesh, mesh breaks. Remesh and move on. If your guy mishandles them, why have you not got in his face about it to rectify the problem or remove him from your shop. No employee who breaks 30 screens in a yr is worth having period! 

[Gilligan]

LOL... you aren't even close to paying attention.

I've had TWO screens bust.  One was an S thread and one was the roller mesh.

I'm just about as new to this printing thing as my guy is.  Granted, I've spent WAY more time learning things on the forum than he has so I have book knowledge under my belt.  But he's getting it.

No, I wasn't looking for someone else to blame.  Hell, I wasn't even venting.  I'm not even mad about it.  I'm merely disappointed, I didn't pay top dollar for the mesh so that helps.  Thanks to some very generous folks on this very board.

I've been using this as all lessons in the learning process.  My shop right now is chaos to put it nicely.  There is NOTHING we do right in this shop so it is no wonder why things happen like this.  We do TRY to not make obvious mistakes (me more than him) but it's inevitable in this environment we are currently in.  This will change shortly as we move to a new location and get set up more properly.

So no, not looking to blame anyone... just adding to the DISCUSSION, on a DISCUSSION forum.

[ScreenPrinter123]

Just thought I would add that we use only S mesh and only had popping problems with 310s when we first made the switch because we attempted to push the envelope with our tensions.  After we learned that lesson we have had no problems and would much rather the S mesh over the standard mesh from our local supplier that we were previously using.

[Prosperi-Tees]

Well I think you ought to ..... nope I got nothing...

[ZooCity]

Just thought I would add that we use only S mesh and only had popping problems with 310s when we first made the switch because we attempted to push the envelope with our tensions.  After we learned that lesson we have had no problems and would much rather the S mesh over the standard mesh from our local supplier that we were previously using.

Ditto here.  If everywhere your screen rests is "mesh safe" and nobody is being a dingus about handling them and you don't try and over tension mesh you'll see about the same rate of failure, across the board, on any type of thread.

S thread is problematic only for shops that aren't giving their screens a safe home everywhere they rest.   

....and probably for shops that have certain equipment limitations I would imagine.   But it's a shame because it just has to be outperforming standard thread mesh at those low static frame tensions. 

I still want to emphasize that there's something to the roller mesh that made it tough as nails compared to good quality mesh at the same thread diameter and tpi.  And I guess there better be for the price they charge for that stuff!

[Gilligan]

I still want to emphasize that there's something to the roller mesh that made it tough as nails compared to good quality mesh at the same thread diameter and tpi.  And I guess there better be for the price they charge for that stuff!

And that is my only complaint... though due to some kind soul   I didn't have to pay that much for this mesh I DO know what it's worth and seeing it breaks my heart in that manner.