Pallet arm Flex

[ZooCity]

BTW, I mean no hostility. They are absolutely friendly and apparently knowledgable. But that doesn't fix me up quickly.

This is where folks like us can get burned, sometimes badly.  There has to be some recourse in situations like this, it's not right.  And honestly, if any company treats anyone who treated them so fairly and patiently like this then they surely deserve some hostility and others deserve to know.  I think it's more than fair and accommodating to spend your time trying to save them the cost of a returned machine at your own suffering and expense.   They should be thankful for the help and now it's their turn to make it right and help you out. 

[cclaud3]

Agreed

[244]

BTW, I mean no hostility. They are absolutely friendly and apparently knowledgable. But that doesn't fix me up quickly.

This is where folks like us can get burned, sometimes badly.  There has to be some recourse in situations like this, it's not right.  And honestly, if any company treats anyone who treated them so fairly and patiently like this then they surely deserve some hostility and others deserve to know.  I think it's more than fair and accommodating to spend your time trying to save them the cost of a returned machine at your own suffering and expense.   They should be thankful for the help and now it's their turn to make it right and help you out.

Ask for a 100% money back guarantee. If we do it they all should do it! If they wont give it to you ask yourself why!!!!!

[prozyan]

Really?  So someone can just sell you something that doesn't work and you're stuck with it?  No remedy here?

Pretty much.  Unfortunately, things are stacked in favor of the manufacturer in these cases.  As Rich mentioned, unless you have some sort of money-back guarantee, you are pretty much at the mercy of the manufacturer.  Legally, the deck is stacked in their favor as well.  All they have to do is demonstrate the machine works as advertised (not works perfectly, but merely works) or that they have made good faith efforts to resolve problems. 

It sucks, but that is how it is.

[Sparkie]

I have the smaller 7 station ElectraPrint (2011 full auto Model) and have no deflection problems to speak of. I do however have other issues, all pretty much minor to this point, but aggravating just the same. Before I call Brown with these problems,  I will need to take some time to make sure it is not user error causing these issues. There is nothing more frustrating when you KNOW it's not you but the tech on the other end of the phone is convinced otherwise.

[cclaud3]

That's the junior model right--very compact? I looked at it while at the show.

I hear you on ruling out user error. I spent the first few weeks troubleshooting and keeping a log of what I had tried with measurements, etc---before I even called them. Some pallets were .25 inch off in the corners ( before I adjusted it). Had them walk me through the leveling process while on the phone. 5 hours later it was a little better. Can probably do the whole machine in 1.5 by myself.

The last time they used dial indicator tools--the way it should have been done the first time. They made new calculation an now have the outrigger feet buried into the ground-- seems much better than before when they just touched. Made for a lot of clanging on the concrete.

[Sparkie]

Yes, it's the smaller compact model.

I now find myself using my manual more than my auto and that needs to change.

[ZooCity]

BTW, I mean no hostility. They are absolutely friendly and apparently knowledgable. But that doesn't fix me up quickly.

This is where folks like us can get burned, sometimes badly.  There has to be some recourse in situations like this, it's not right.  And honestly, if any company treats anyone who treated them so fairly and patiently like this then they surely deserve some hostility and others deserve to know.  I think it's more than fair and accommodating to spend your time trying to save them the cost of a returned machine at your own suffering and expense.   They should be thankful for the help and now it's their turn to make it right and help you out.

Ask for a 100% money back guarantee. If we do it they all should do it! If they wont give it to you ask yourself why!!!!!

Rich, you guys have the bar way up higher than most can even consider approaching. From my experience, other mfg's are letting gear out their door that would never pass even an initial stage of mfg at M&R.  They can't offer the service and warranty you do because many cannot seem to engineer and build their gear properly.  Some mfg's don't even have unique part numbers for critical parts or keep track of the design revisions and changes to their products.  These operations would be literally bankrupt in a matter of months trying to support and guarantee their product the way you do.  It's simply outside their ability, try as they might, and personally I consider it unethical to mfg in this way, taking payment for products and services you cannot and will not deliver.  It's senseless.   

The only reason every single piece of major gear in our shop isn't M&R is the simple fact that the other, less capable manufacturers often have features and configurations better suited to us; it's not price or any other factor.  But it's all for naught if the gear doesn't work and they don't care.  At least that's the lesson learned here. 

[ScreenFoo]

This seems like a bit of a push on Brown to me.  I don't have an electraprint, I don't know anyone who does--but to say the 'gear doesn't work and they don't care', when it's a problem that M&R themselves had years ago, it seems like an odd argument.

I'm not bashing M&R---two of the three presses here are M&R, and I love working with and on them.  I've had great experiences with the support there, past a lack of availability on older parts.
But at the same time, I can get just about any part for the old Hopkins, and it has decades on either M&R I run.

[ZooCity]

definitely agreed foo. 

I think there might have been a lot of my own pent up frustration with not brown but another mfg in that comment. :-  none of my comments were meant to be brand specific, just using examples.

but I stand by the comments overall.  if the above story is giving most of the picture then no, brown doesn't really care.  if they did the problem would be solved by now. 

and I do believe that very few mfg could make the guarantee that M&R does.  I should clarify that I don't think M&R is over achieving necessarily but more that the rest are falling so far below the passing mark that they often cannot even be considered for a major purchase.

[mk162]

the biggest thing is a brand new press shouldn't need service or a tech.  at least not until it's time for a tune-up.  Presses should go out working like they are supposed to.

[Homer]

I don't know about you guys, but I would like to hear Brown chime in here and give an explanation, sort of defend themselves a bit. There are two sides to every story, not saying it's the OP's fault at all, just interested in the real nuts-n-bolts of the story. Somethings out of whack here, literally.

[Prosperi-Tees]

I just emailed this link to Brown

[Frog]

I don't know about you guys, but I would like to hear Brown chime in here and give an explanation, sort of defend themselves a bit. There are two sides to every story, not saying it's the OP's fault at all, just interested in the real nuts-n-bolts of the story. Somethings out of whack here, literally.

I have seen manufacturers leave, or reduce their presence on a forum that posted negative comments.
Completely counter-productive in my mind.

[Sparkie]

Mike at Brown has certainly cared and been there for me any time I've called with an issue.

I think my biggest problem is my ways of screen printing are not the same as Brown's, therefore I MAY be trying to get my ElectraPrint to function in a manner for which it was not intended to function. I'll get it all sorted out eventually, but like I said, I'm using my manual more now just to save me the aggravation during my busy time.