Artist, do you sketch "everything" in pencil first?

[Dottonedan]

Artist, do you sketch "everything" in pencil first?


I had a customer a while ago who sent me photo reference. Granted, I was to make everything art in the end and not photos' but the elements used, are in the exact position from the photos. So, What I do in this case for the "concept"  is I just mask out the elements needed from the photo's and move them around and re-size for concept layout and mix any other elements and add in my type needed.  That is my first round "sketch" or concept. The term "sketch" is used very loosely here.  After laying it out, I got excited about the coloring part and moved into adding color. IN doing so, I sued paths and did not actually hand draw or pencil anything. Basically using the photo's as my guides as apposed to any unnecessary pencil sketches. So, I rendered it up (I rendered it pretty quickly), just adding in color but not a great amount of detail like I would if taking it to final art. To me, seems par for the course.


In my agreement, I stated the stages.


1 Sketch/roughs,


2 Approval/Revisions (if any)


3 Tighter color comp,


4 Approval/Revisions (if any)


5 Separations.


So, my customer gets the jpg sketch. he himself at that time does not say anything to me. Sent it off to his customer for approval. His customer says, He's thinking it should have been a pencil "sketch'. Say's it's not dynamic enough or something similar. Guess he felt he was not getting what he was paying for?  So, I email my customer my rebuttal. My customer then attached his stance to the idea that I did not send in a real pencil sketch first.  I thinks to myself,  Ok, so?  Apparently, they feel it may have been better if it were a real drawn out pencil sketch first?  I don't know. I explained to my customer why I went the rout I did. Had I needed to come up with some new pose that was not in the Photo reference, I would have drawn one up. Didn't need to and drawing what is already there would be redundant.   At this point, he seemed to have little patience. I gather that his customer was being a bit of a jerk with him already and my customer does not seem to be the type to go back an d fourth on issues. r me.He said he isn't accustom to arguing with his customer, "implying that I am" and thus decided to cancel the order.


This is not a knock on my customer. He even paid me for the concept work.


My whole reason for posting was to discuss how many artist actually do full pencil drawings of every design (even when using photo reference) ? Seems to be a waste of time for me.  Useless.

[3Deep]

We only do pencil if we have no direction and trying to get to a point of real ideal a customer wants.  I don't have time to send proof after proof trying figure out what a customer wants unless they are paying the price.

Darryl

[Chadwick]

Lead is far cooler, but the customer likely thought your mockup was final stuff.
'hey, my kid coulda done that' sorta response.

People don't get it.
I do initial layout mockups that way, if there's reference material,
but then I'll sketch something if time permits.
Then the real work begins.

Most people looking for art have no idea of the process involved, the time, or the cost.

Communication is difficult, especially through a middle-man.
I've got no answers.

[mk162]

Yeah, I think people see those HGTV shows where they do 3 different mockups of a space that are amazing and think that is what they should get.  Rather than the idea and work from there.  What happens if the concept from the start is flawed and you go ahead with the whole thing?  It's easier to redo a sketch than an entire finished piece.

[Dottonedan]

Yeah, I think people see those HGTV shows where they do 3 different mockups of a space that are amazing and think that is what they should get.  Rather than the idea and work from there.  What happens if the concept from the start is flawed and you go ahead with the whole thing?  It's easier to redo a sketch than an entire finished piece.

When working with photo elements, an element is and element no matter where it's moved so, if I color up an element it can be moved later if the layout is not what the customer wanted. At the beginning, I only do what I call "rough colors'. Meaning, I don't add in any detail but you can get the idea in general.


The more and more concepts I do the more I am reminded, that when you are beginning the art, you can't assume the customer has the sense to understand that it's not finished. probably 7 our of 10 will assume it's what I intend for the final.


One time, when doing a job for Harley, even tho I am required to use limited color, lets say a max of 8 colors, and I plop in a photo of a motorcycle for position/reference, and 4-5 other elements were roughed in or sketched by hand, I have a had the customer get all bent and say, " WE DON'T WANT THAT PINK IN OUR TEE. Motorcycle Men don't like pink.  WHY WOULD YOU USE PINK?  MAKE SURE YOU DONT USE PINK! As if I were going to use every color in the photo.  LOL. and it wasn't even pink, it was a light purple. Anyways...


Sometimes people can't see where you're going until it's 100% complete and fully rendered. Other times, people can't see where your going unless you hand pencil it out??  We can never win. 

[Command-Z]

Chad's right, most people don't get it. When dealing with an art director, sketches are expected... but the general public doesn't understand the process.

That's no reason to change the process, it's an opportunity to educate.

You must do a sketch before a final render. It has to be done... weather it's a pencil sketch or a photo mockup, a layout must be agreed upon, type must be proofread, fonts must be approved and poses, angles and other basics, before color is added and illustration is started.

I always make sure that upfront, I provide concept sketches with 2 free revisions... beyond 2 revisions, charges are added to the fee. If it's a RUSH job, no free revisions.
I don't proceed to color until a sketch is approved. Any changes made to the layout after sketch approval are subject to extra charge. It sometimes happens that the client wants post-approval changes...but I make sure I get paid for the extra work, and usually they are OK with it as long as they know upfront what they get charged for. But usually, with the understanding of the process and that the sketch is where changes are to be made, the client gets it and most jobs go very smoothly.

There are those times...even after explaining the process, I often get "that car will be rendered like the others in your portfolio, right? Not all sketchy and grey?" But it's important to let them know that it's better this way... the job will go faster and cost less.