Underbases...to halftone or not to halftone

[ScreenPrinter123]

I was curious as to whether any of you halftone an underbase when it has pretty large fill areas.  I would imagine this would drop flash times and help with ink shear and thus increase production rates.  I accidentally did this on a recent job because the black was not a 100% black in illustrator and I did not realize it until after I outputted the films (this happened on the wet on wet top colors as well) but none of this was noticeable in the final print.

What would be the advantages and/or disadvantages of doing this and what percentage do you use for the halftones if you do it.

[inkman996]

I used to do this but then i figured out it is nicer to just go to a higher mesh count and lay a nice smooth underbase, opacity does not have to be 100% since it is only an underbase.

[mk162]

I will do this sometimes with multiple colors over white, it seems on some jobs to help the ink stick better and build up less.  I think because it has more surface area of the ink for the top colors to stick to.

[Frog]

I don't do it much, but then again, I don't presently do a lot of sophisticated multi color jobs that would benefit. The benefit is that much less ink wherever possible.
My friend Rockman uses this method (or at least did), and hopefully he will chime in and explain how he determines how each top color gets it's own tint percentage determined by its inherent "covering" power.

Many knock out the ub entirely under black.

[JBLUE]

I don't do it much, but then again, I don't presently do a lot of sophisticated multi color jobs that would benefit. The benefit is that much less ink wherever possible.
My friend Rockman uses this method (or at least did), and hopefully he will chime in and explain how he determines how each top color gets it's own tint percentage determined by its inherent "covering" power.

Many knock out the ub entirely under black.

We use it from time to time. We do not do it for flash times or to speed up the press. Its used for the effect it has on the art.

[ZooCity]

I do like Inkman most of the time.  If it's not sim process I'm probably using a a solid base through a 150/48 because I want to clear the base screen in one hit so registration isn't frustrated by excessive gain on the base and I want that ink on top of the garment for a quick flash and a boss print.  Higher counts are totally usable, we've done up to 310/30 for base white, just depends on how much matt-down you need and what you're going for up top. 

I'm not really attracted to halftoning the base expecting it to fill in solid from gain but now you guys have me thinking about it regarding the shirt/bases ability to 'grab' ink and help for wow printing....I do really like the halftoned ub, where applicable, for giving more depth to the tones of your top colors though.  It's a similar approach to a classical painting technique ( I think..can't remember the word for this) I've seen people do where they build up tonal layers before painting the "top" and main component of the work. 

[tpitman]

I do like Inkman most of the time.  If it's not sim process I'm probably using a a solid base through a 150/48 because I want to clear the base screen in one hit so registration isn't frustrated by excessive gain on the base and I want that ink on top of the garment for a quick flash and a boss print.  Higher counts are totally usable, we've done up to 310/30 for base white, just depends on how much matt-down you need and what you're going for up top. 

I'm not really attracted to halftoning the base expecting it to fill in solid from gain but now you guys have me thinking about it regarding the shirt/bases ability to 'grab' ink and help for wow printing....I do really like the halftoned ub, where applicable, for giving more depth to the tones of your top colors though.  It's a similar approach to a classical painting technique ( I think..can't remember the word for this) I've seen people do where they build up tonal layers before painting the "top" and main component of the work.

I believe the term is "grisaille". The underpainting is almost grayscale, with top colors added as glazing, using transparent or translucent colors to permit the underpainting to establish the values, the glazing establishing the color.

[inkman996]

I do like Inkman most of the time.  If it's not sim process I'm probably using a a solid base through a 150/48 because I want to clear the base screen in one hit so registration isn't frustrated by excessive gain on the base and I want that ink on top of the garment for a quick flash and a boss print.  Higher counts are totally usable, we've done up to 310/30 for base white, just depends on how much matt-down you need and what you're going for up top. 

I'm not really attracted to halftoning the base expecting it to fill in solid from gain but now you guys have me thinking about it regarding the shirt/bases ability to 'grab' ink and help for wow printing....I do really like the halftoned ub, where applicable, for giving more depth to the tones of your top colors though.  It's a similar approach to a classical painting technique ( I think..can't remember the word for this) I've seen people do where they build up tonal layers before painting the "top" and main component of the work.

Exactly zoo I hate using a slab of white ink as an under base, in fact for the last year or so I have been guttering my bases, it really helps with edge details now that I have the tri loc registering to near perfect or even perfect is so much easier. So taking steps such as using gutters is paying off.

[ZooCity]

translate gutter for me. choking?

grissaille- thank you mr. pitman, that was a an enjoyable wikipedia read.

[inkman996]

I wouldn't call it choking, basically any where there is a top color on the base I leave a hairline out of the base coat this gives a better edge for the top color to fall into instead of smearing out which can happen sometimes on top coats, it is really useful when you have two or more colors on top of a base coat that butt register, in stead of the butt maintain the butt register but use a hair line knock out on the under base, the two top colors print crisper

[Gilligan]

Zoo, basically a choke where two colors sit next to each other (butt registered) on top of an underbase.

Like a ying yang symbol.  Choke the elements (small circles and the parts that touch the cirlces) on the underbase vs a solid circle.  It keeps the top inks from getting muddy with each other on top the underbase.

*edit*... yeah, what Mike said.

[ZooCity]

ohhh, so it's like a hairline knockout of the UB on all the lines between each top color?  Then tops are butt reg and the butted edges of each color fall into this 'gutter' rather than smearing up with each other on top of a solid white plate?

[inkman996]

ohhh, so it's like a hairline knockout of the UB on all the lines between each top color?  Then tops are butt reg and the butted edges of each color fall into this 'gutter' rather than smearing up with each other on top of a solid white plate?

Yep

[ZooCity]

ohhh, so it's like a hairline knockout of the UB on all the lines between each top color?  Then tops are butt reg and the butted edges of each color fall into this 'gutter' rather than smearing up with each other on top of a solid white plate?

Yep

I can see how tof do this easily in ai but in ps?

[Chadwick]

My underbases are always toned.
It adds a texture to your solid fill covers, which, may prove a problem on some fabrics, or with some inks,
but, get it right, and you're golden.
It gets a bit trickier if you only have one white and have to double hit it ( p/f/p/f ), but you'll see
soon enough how it goes and learn to second guess your seps. Either that or enjoy convincing folks they
actually DO NEED 2 whites..good luck with that one. 

If you want to figure out what your underbase values should be, just make a grayscale bitmap of your art.
Reds and darker color areas may need a boost, while areas that need no base may still show and need to be removed.
Still, it's a good visual reference to build from.

Sepping in a bitmap format like photoshop gives you a way better idea how things will look, as opposed to thinking in numbers
in a vector program that can't emulate output.