Nor*Cal

[Frog]

I just had a potential client (thanks Sean) want "Nor Cal" on the sleeve, along with the usual team name on front and numbers on back.
I told her that I would have to look into just what I could do, since Nor Cal is a recognized clothing line. "But everyone does it", she cried.

So, here's the deal, I do shirts for a variety of "Nor Cals", all legitimate, but this request rubbed me the wrong way.
Now, initially, I could just say, I cant put a star in the middle, because that's an actual logo, but now I see them use a multitude of typestyles, many with no star.

http://www.norcalclothingco.com/
 
Thoughts?

[Fresh Baked Printing]

There is some guy doing The South Butt vs The North Face. North Face sued the guy and they settled to undisclosed terms but the last I heard he was still printing them.
There was another case where a bar in northern Minnesota was operating as Jeeps. Never mind that the bar owners name was Jeep. He got sued and settled under the agreement not to open any more bars under the Jeep name.
It pretty ridiculous as to what some of these copyright holders lay claim to as infringement.
Are we supposed to hire a legal team to investigate each customer order?
Being in Minnesota, I would have printed Nor Cal with no problem. Not because I thought the copyright holder wouldn't notice but because I have never heard of Nor Cal and have no idea what or where or who Nor Cal is. No Cal has no relevance to me.

I print softball shirts all the time for company teams. Technically, I should be obtaining a release from corporate HQ to print these. Just because the companies recreational committee orders these doesn't technically mean I can print them. I bet the companies recreational committee would even have a hard time even obtaining the release.

Short of researching every piece of art for copyright status, I'll print just about anything UNLESS I KNOW otherwise. Otherwise, nothing would ever get printed.

Does anybody here research before printing? Does the disclaimer that we're not responsible for violations really hold water? Too bad we don't have a resident copyright lawyer member.

[blue moon]

I just had a potential client (thanks Sean) want "Nor Cal" on the sleeve, along with the usual team name on front and numbers on back.
I told her that I would have to look into just what I could do, since Nor Cal is a recognized clothing line. "But everyone does it", she cried.

So, here's the deal, I do shirts for a variety of "Nor Cals", all legitimate, but this request rubbed me the wrong way.
Now, initially, I could just say, I cant put a star in the middle, because that's an actual logo, but now I see them use a multitude of typestyles, many with no star.

http://www.norcalclothingco.com[/u]/]http://www.norcalclothingco.com/

Thoughts?

if nor cal was used before the clothing line was started, I can't see how it would hold any ground. If they started it, it is a different story. So nor cal might be public domain and they are printing it and doing well with it. You could think of it as California. Do you have to pay the state to use the name?

[Frog]

Being in Minnesota, I would have printed Nor Cal with no problem. Not because I thought the copyright holder wouldn't notice but because I have never heard of Nor Cal and have no idea what or where or who Nor Cal is. No Cal has no relevance to me.



Short of researching every piece of art for copyright status, I'll print just about anything UNLESS I KNOW otherwise. Otherwise, nothing would ever get printed.

Does anybody here research before printing? Does the disclaimer that we're not responsible for violations really hold water? Too bad we don't have a resident copyright lawyer member.

Well, out here, in the SF Bay area, half of the High Schoolers' cars have decals from either No Fear or Nor Cal. Most of the Nor Cal stickers and shirts include a star, so that could be the issue. Yankees is fine, NY Yankees is not. Then again, isn't Homer a New York Yankee to Johnny?

btw, my original link didn't. so if you want to check 'em out, it is now repaired

[Dottonedan]

In the case of JEEPS, it could be that the owner of the bar, made the comparison to the JEEP vehicle by using a sign of some sort that was similar to the logo of the JEEP brand.  I can own a bar and call it Campbell's  and Campbell's Soup Co. could not sue...unless I used that same script font style or something very similar to that same script.  That could potentially confuse people into thinking that the Co has some affiliation.

In Frogs case,  They have (the way those words are used together) as a trade Mark. Like Disney, they can use is in any letter form they like. It does not always have to be the same "look" and "font style" (like art work that is copyrighted). So, not matter how they use it, they still own it and can protect it.

Also, people can use something widely for a long time...thousands of years...and someone can register it as a trade mark tomorrow. JC cannot be. It's just two letters together. Jesus Christ (with a crown) can be.   hmmmm.
Once you own Jesus Christ (with a crown) you can then use it on your products (in short) like JC but you would then also need an identifier on the product somewhere (like a tag) so as to not confuse people with it being something that it's not.  On apparel, Disney did not nee dot include the WDW logo circle R with in the design (since it was already in the tag).

Look at the $ invested into the Smiley face legal battles. People used that for so long with no rebuttal from the originator (use it or lose it) that other people thought they were the originator. 3 people came forward to claim ownership as the original creator of the Smiley Face....after Wal-Mart started using it...and Wal-Mart wanted to copyright it. In this case, the owners created it way back when...but copyright laws were different then. They needed to actually register it at that time to really claim ownership. Also know, that even if you do own it and it;'s registered the old saying applies. *Use it or lose it). Meaning, if you do not pursue "protecting it", then it shows a lack of interest and a lack of ownership. Therefore, like squatters rights, you can lose it.

[Command-Z]

I wouldn't do it. The legality of it is fuzzy... but nobody talks about the the morality of it. It's downright wrong. Bottom line is, she's obviously trying to capitalize on someone else's work and creativity. She's no better than a thief. You'd be part of it by agreeing to do the work.

[ebscreen]

While I would agree with the above, NorCal has been a, uhmm, term, a lot longer than it has
been a clothing line or whatever the hell they are. Cripes, it's gone so far as to have even
jumped the shark. SoCal - LowCal etc.


Speaking of aquatic creatures, I've always wanted to do a NorCal spoof. See I saw this truck one
time with the ubiquitous lettering, but the "L" had fallen off. Norca. I'm thinking an Orca with a surfboard
and a star tattoo and a bad attitude.

[Frog]

I do have two other legitimate groups who use Nor Cal in their names, and one has even been around longer than the clothing company.

My stand was when someone puts plain old Nor Cal on a piece of clothing, they are trying to capitalize on the fashion fad, and I told this woman just that.

Nor Cal Golden Retrievers, Nor Cal Novas, no problem. Nor Cal, no way!