what is the difference between M&R micros and Anatols?

[ZooCity]

I actually rebuilt two x-y micro machines from the ground up- one Hopkins BWM, one M&R.  They were nearly identical in form and function as is workhorse I believe, not sure who copied who on those.  But anyways, I understand the adjustments intimately from doing those rebuilds and, even finely adjusted to perfection, I dislike the design and the overall experience of using them.  I'd be very surprised if anyone took an x-y style micro over a 'direct drive' style in a good 'ol fashioned taste test without the blind brand loyalty or stubbornness we all tend to pick up over time.  (not busting anyone's balls here...okay I'm busting Sam's balls a little ) 

I would gamble that about half of the issues out there are from mis-adjustment of the micros, they do get out of adjustment over time and we all know how people tend to screw with parts of machines they don't fully understand.  The other half I think are legitimate concerns that there is a better way to do this.  Rich, I gotta say, that makes no sense to think that no one has the same experience as the users of this forum, we're just a cross sampling of screen printers from around the world after all and we're all rooting for ya and would like to use more of your equipment but simply don't like this style of adjustment.  The other folks in our camp outside of this forum, well, it's likely you don't hear from them because they bought another brand. 

[mjrprint]

The last time that I was preparing art for Ace to make me transfers, they told me to leave off the reg marks because their set up, which now included DTS, did not need them.
Not the same as them saying that they didn't need micros on their flat bed presses, but it still surprised and impressed me.

Andy the only reason to use reg marks even with the tri-loc is for pre-registering the films but even then I only use a .1 point line it is so thin it does not wash out. On press if off by any amount it is a tiny amount and only requires a look at the art itself to see which way to adjust, if I had a DTS I would not use reg marks either because it is easy enough to judge what you need to adjust just off the printed art.

DTS brings a whole other level of problems to the table trust me. We have had DTS for a while (19th Iscreen made) and still put reg marks on all the art. I can almost guarantee we do more setups than anyone on this board also (48 piece average order, 4500+ pieces daily) They are always a great backup in case you get outta wak with the micros. I will agree that I cant stand using them especially on our diamondback. We have reg marks built into art templates though so they are always there without adding them. Might be a bit more work for some. As for dts there are many variables such as screen tension, squeegee pressure, if the DTS operator made sure to tap the screen against the stop blocks properly.

[244]

I actually rebuilt two x-y micro machines from the ground up- one Hopkins BWM, one M&R.  They were nearly identical in form and function as is workhorse I believe, not sure who copied who on those.  But anyways, I understand the adjustments intimately from doing those rebuilds and, even finely adjusted to perfection, I dislike the design and the overall experience of using them.  I'd be very surprised if anyone took an x-y style micro over a 'direct drive' style in a good 'ol fashioned taste test without the blind brand loyalty or stubbornness we all tend to pick up over time.  (not busting anyone's balls here...okay I'm busting Sam's balls a little ) 

I would gamble that about half of the issues out there are from mis-adjustment of the micros, they do get out of adjustment over time and we all know how people tend to screw with parts of machines they don't fully understand.  The other half I think are legitimate concerns that there is a better way to do this.  Rich, I gotta say, that makes no sense to think that no one has the same experience as the users of this forum, we're just a cross sampling of screen printers from around the world after all and we're all rooting for ya and would like to use more of your equipment but simply don't like this style of adjustment.  The other folks in our camp outside of this forum, well, it's likely you don't hear from them because they bought another brand.

I am always open to making our product better as long as the cost stays affordable. If you attend any of the shows we do look me up ( I am at all of them) and we can discuss the pro's and cons of micro.

[mk162]

Thank you Rich, that was the response we were looking for!

[tonypep]

Many do not realize that a properly set up and aligned M&R micro has a "neutral" position where the knob can turn from 10:00 to 2:00 without moving the screen carraige.

[3Deep]

@ Rich while we are on the subject of upgrades to equipment even though I us the Red company I would love to have a press where you can program in your print jobs and keep them maybe on a flash drive for later use.
Example say I,m printing a six color job and I only have room for one flash unit, so I double stroke the white on the first go round and only won't to single stroke it on the second time around and then print all my colors on top etc most of you know where I,m going with this, is this possible or there press's out there now that can do it? Its all in the control head.

Darryl

[244]

@ Rich while we are on the subject of upgrades to equipment even though I us the Red company I would love to have a press where you can program in your print jobs and keep them maybe on a flash drive for later use.
Example say I,m printing a six color job and I only have room for one flash unit, so I double stroke the white on the first go round and only won't to single stroke it on the second time around and then print all my colors on top etc most of you know where I,m going with this, is this possible or there press's out there now that can do it? Its all in the control head.

Darryl

With the revolver program you can already store your jobs and come back to them. 99 jobs I think.

[ZooCity]

Rich, thats good to hear. I doubt I'll make it to a trade in the next year but one of your reps is stopping by tomorrow and I'll go over micros when we meet.  we are a small, financially insignificant, shop but I think some of my opinions on the subject might be worth a listen. it sounds like including the intensity control on the chili is working out well and, while I'm no industrial engineer, I would try not to suggest anything for the micros that would drive the price up too far.

I get ya Tony, but that is a big part of the design issue- micros should be able to skew adjust and then left to right adjust and these ought to be independent of each other.  If x-y style micros have the skew adjustments at dead zero then sure, they can do a linear horizontal adjust but only in that exact position.  And if our only visual on true zero is a roughly applied sticker with a target...it's nigh impossible to get it perfectly zeroed out.

[244]

Rich, thats good to hear. I doubt I'll make it to a trade in the next year but one of your reps is stopping by tomorrow and I'll go over micros when we meet.  we are a small, financially insignificant, shop but I think some of my opinions on the subject might be worth a listen. it sounds like including the intensity control on the chili is working out well and, while I'm no industrial engineer, I would try not to suggest anything for the micros that would drive the price up too far.

I get ya Tony, but that is a big part of the design issue- micros should be able to skew adjust and then left to right adjust and these ought to be independent of each other.  If x-y style micros have the skew adjustments at dead zero then sure, they can do a linear horizontal adjust but only in that exact position.  And if our only visual on true zero is a roughly applied sticker with a target...it's nigh impossible to get it perfectly zeroed out.

Zoo as I thought your last statement confirms to me there are some unknown things about our micro system. PM me a phone number to call to discuss.

[tonypep]

To clarify the neutral position is designed to keep the micros from shifting in production and binding once perfect registration is achieved. Ideally once the image is registered all micros should be set to the neutral position.

[ZooCity]

are you guys talking about backing off the micros?

[jasonl]

are you guys talking about backing off the micros?

Yeah that sounds crazy and I have been using them for almost 15 years.

[ZooCity]

fill us in guys, inquiring minds want to know!

[tonypep]

"Backing off" is a correct enough term I suppose. Once you make an adjustment you back off either left or right and will notice the micro is in free-wheel.

[mk162]

never done that, and the micros work just fine.  and I don't have a problem with them shifting while running.