Automatics...

[whitewater]

I am working towards an Automatic.

I would like to hear the experiences from those of you that have them.

Did you get it used or new?

What was your experience in the learning curve?

Where did you get your info on setting it up and getting the kinks out for your particular press?

Your likes and dislikes?

Do you wish you would have went with a different manufacturer after using the one you have?

If you did get a used one do you wish you would have gotten a new one?

Sorry there are so many questions, trying to do some homework on this since I have nothing to draw from in experience.

Thanks

[GraphicDisorder]

I am working towards an Automatic.

Don't stop, keep going, it will change your life.

I would like to hear the experiences from those of you that have them.

I have a M&R Sportsman, I am a small fish but it has been awesome for us.  We can now print what took several days before, in 1 or 2 days a week if we need to.  We are now doing more jobs, larger jobs, and the prints are way more consistant.

Did you get it used or new?

New, and I wouldn't change that.  I wanted someone to stand behind it if there was a problem for my first auto.  Second auto I wouldn't be scared of used, but will probably do new again when the time comes. 

What was your experience in the learning curve?

Sure, but honestly I expected it to be much worse than it has actually been.  Biggest change for us was just moving up to higher mesh screens since we printed manual.  Other than that its not really been much of a learning curve. 

Where did you get your info on setting it up and getting the kinks out for your particular press?

Didn't really have any kinks or anything like that, the manufacture set up the press, trained us for a few days and thats been it. 

Your likes and dislikes?

Likes, well everything.  I think I wouldn't change a thing about the press other than maybe should have got 2-4 more heads.  But its not been a big problem.  I would say go at least 8/10, 10/12 or larger if you got it.

Do you wish you would have went with a different manufacturer after using the one you have?

Nope, very happy with our choice.

If you did get a used one do you wish you would have gotten a new one?

Bought new wouldn't change that.

Sorry there are so many questions, trying to do some homework on this since I have nothing to draw from in experience.

Thanks

Don't say sorry for having questions, you shouldn't buy until you have all your answers and only buy from the company that fits you best.  I think there are several quality manufactures in the game.  I don't think anyone makes a complete POS.  I think there are presses and companies that fit people better than others much like Ford/Chevy/Dodge and so on.  Buy what you think is the best fit for yourself.  But yes do yourself the favor of shopping them all. 

A side note, be ready for all the extra expenses with getting an auto.  Electric upgrades, Gas, Compressor/Chiller and install of it, fork lifts/pallet jacks, so on and so on.  I know myself I spent around 10k in extra's, its not hard to do before you know it.  So remember when you are talking about the cost of your new equipment, dont forget the costs to run wire/air and so on for it.  You will bleed money for a period of time, but worth it!

[whitewater]

thanks for taking the time replying...I've talked to a few that have automatics and do know about the extras...

thank you

[blue moon]

just a quick add . . . there are fords, chevys and dodges, but lets not forget the vw, bmw and mercedes.
My thinking is that your press will probably be similar to what you drive. ppl that prefer the american cars will probably prefer an american press. ppl driving imports will probably look in that direction. yes, it is a generalization, but most likely a rather accurate one.

get as many heads as you can. 8/10 at a minimum!

bought used, but it was only 4 months old. Would not suggest buying used for a first auto (unless it is not really used like ours).

main issue with ours is that we did not get enough heads (8/10). I am already looking into something bigger and it had barely been two years. My guess we'll upgrade soon . . .

huge learning curve, but I did not have much printing experience when we got it. If you are doing simulated process now, it will not be as big of a deal. If all you do is spot, it will be bigger. The biggest problem for me was figuring out printing on the darks. The plattens have to be wormed up and the printing speed needs to be consistent. If you fall behind, the quartz flash cools down, your shirt is not flashed and it sticks to the bottom of the next screen. Then when you turn it, it pulls of and you are in for a mess. Getting the timing down on flashing was the hardest part. Printing white will take a little too. What you have been doing by feel will now have to be done by a machine. As you printed by hand you adjusted the pressure, speed, angle and all that stuff instinctively, on the auto it has to be preset. You can speed up, reduce pressure and do the adjustments on the press, but it takes time to figure out what exactly needs to be done. . .

so much for the quick add!

pierre

[terryei]

Got a brand new, (first one sold) M&R Diamondback.
Been great.  My reasons:
I'm in Illinois, they are 2.
Support, none better
was told I'd get more/do more business with an auto.  That was true.
Lengthly discussion, give me a call.
Terry

[Scobey Peterman]

I bought a used Brown Elctra 6x8.  It has been good for what we do, mainly 1,2 & 3 color, spot colors.

I like this because there was no extra compresser to buy.  The auto runs on 110.  The flashes runs on 220.

I looked in your profile to see where you are.  No information.

If you can, go to a show and see the different types of machines.  Ask as many questions as you can.

Good luck

[squeegee]

We've bought several presses in the past.  We had more problems with the used presses than the new ones.  My thought is that when you buy used you run the risk of inherenting other people's problems, bad habits etc.  I'd have a tech you trust check a used press before you buy.

Learning curve from manual was substantial, and even from one auto brand to another.  I'd recommend bringing your first auto in during slower months if you have them to give you time to get used to it.

Set ups and kinks were worked out by the manu.

Get as many heads as you can afford/fit.

Very happy with the current machines I have (MHM E-type).

[alan802]

One of my favorite topics!  If it's your first auto, I'd agree with most everyone in saying buy new, or at the very least very lightly used.  I think servo indexer and ac printheads are worth every penny as features and I won't buy a press without those two options, along with central off contact (or something equivalent).  Those 3 features are a must for me.  I took the auto buying process way more serious than most and spent years researching all the various automatics on the market.  I took pages and pages of notes and then made a chart with all of the finalists and compared and contrasted all of the features of those presses and made sure I covered everything that I could.  I talked to shops who ran the presses in question and tried to leave no stone unturned.  There hasn't been a day go by that I haven't been happy with our purchase, it's been an unbelievable press and it was such a fun process to go through, I can't wait to do it again.

I'd try to find those features that you think will serve you the best with your shop and way of doing things.  If a press is filled with features you don't find important, then move on.  If a certain press doesn't have those things that you think you'd like in a press, mark it off the list.  Trust me, there are way more good options for automatics available today than there ever have been and it's not even close.  There is an auto to fill just about any niche.  I love automatic talk.

[whitewater]

so alan...which one do you have?

[alan802]

so alan...which one do you have?

10 color RPM Revolution. 

[Homer]

We bought used  BUT - like most, I suggest to buy new for the reasons of: tech support aka " how the fk do I work this thing?!", installation, have a problem? they will fix it, latest and greatest technology, you will print faster, less set up time, all the bugs are worked out from the older machines, less down time, faster & better print speed, new parallel pallets, better toys -flashes,  pneumatic squeegie holders all that fun stuff, longer ownership life out of the machine. . .

we went used, cash money -done- just to get into an automatic , now I know or have a better idea of what we really need. We have a 6 color, I think I may go jump Alan on a dark street and snag his 10 color because that is ideal. anything under 8 for us now -would be kinda pushing it. Monthly payment of 2k, what's that, maybe 2 -3 jobs, Terri is right, when you go auto, the flood gates will open, I don't know why but it did for us too. I guess you have more time marketing or something. . .

[Northland]

I've had both used and new..... nothing but new in the future.

[alan802]

I'd like to give you some features that I think are very valuable to have on any press you choose.  Air activated squeegee and floodbar locks, as well as air activated screen locks.  Those 2 features have saved us so much time during setups it's ridiculous.  I couldn't imaging having to manually lock sq and fb's and screens now that we've done it with the flip of a switch for a few years.

Some printers might not care what kind of functionality that is available on each printhead, but I have some very strong opinions on this subject.  I think having too many functions at the end of the printhead could very well have a negative affect on the setup process, but our press has more than the average press and it's been awesome to have.  In the beginning, it was overwhelming to have all those buttons staring at you, but after just a few days, I was punching those buttons like it was a keyboard and I started to really appreciate all of the functions there.  I think our press could do without a couple of the buttons on the printhead panel and you wouldn't lose anything, but for the most part, I use every single one of them.  I'm certainly not dogging any press that is lacking in this department, but I personally prefer to have too many functions there than not enough.  I think if you have test print, independent sq and fb speed, table up/down, indexing or at least free-wheel mode and sq/fb/screen locks then that is enough, but anything more than that can be a plus, but too many can also hinder the printer.  Our press has a digital value set for most all of the print parameters which I find valuable, but it's not one of those things we couldn't live without.  It's very nice to have and I'm a huge fan of those features.  Those digital readouts really come in handy on tough jobs, I'll write down all those numbers so that when we print that job again, it's all right there on the job folder and is easily duplicated down to the minute details.

I think having a squeegee pressure regulator and gauge for each printhead to control the downward pressure the chopper cylinders is a must have, almost as valuable to me as having AC printheads and a servo indexer.  We are constantly changing squeegee pressure within the chopper cylinders along with raising and lowering the squeegee to further dial in your print pressure.  It's really nice to have that much control over the print pressure, and can make the difference in printing on top of the shirt or in the shirt. 

The last feature that I would hate to not have is the tool-less squeegee/floodbar angle adjustments.  Our old press required an allen wrench to loosen 2 bolts per squeegee to change the angle, our new press has 2 kip levers and it's done in seconds without tools.  I'm one of those guys who changes print angle all the time and I hated having to carry an allen wrench around with me. 

CENTRAL OFF CONTACT!, love it, will never go without it on a press ever again, unless it's a challenger III that has individual tool-less off contact adjustment.  I'm not sure how other presses accomplish moving central off contact but ours is done with the pushing of a few buttons and it's sssssssssoooooooooooo valuable to have the ability to change the OC, it's another feature we use multiple times per day.  Some shirts are thicker than others, tote bags and sweatshirts require a significantly different OC distance.  Make sure the press you buy has this feature, and that it has a significant distance that it can move as well.  A press that has central OC but it only has 1/16" of total movement isn't going to be as versatile as a press that has .5" or so of OC movement.

I'm sure I'll think of more things to add to this thread.  Did I mention that I love talking automatics?

[whitewater]

RThanks Alan for taking the time to write that up!

I really don't have  a clue but with this info it will help me a great deal!

Thanks

[alan802]

I forgot to mention getting a pre-registration system with your auto.  There are pros and cons to them but I think the fact that most every big time shop uses them vouches for their value.  People get by without them, and even we do from time to time, but if used properly, there is no faster way to set up multi-colored jobs.  Some arguments against them are valid, and it's true that you'll spend much more time aligning film to screen, but several minutes extra in the pre-press process is nothing compared to the time you'll save on setups.  That was the hardest thing to explain to my screen guy.  He just continued to argue that it takes way longer to put the film on but if 5 minutes extra will save 10 minutes at some point down the line, it's more than worth it.  Now multiply that over every setup over the entire year and you'll see some significant time/money savings.

If you are handy with fabricating stuff, you can build a regi system for under $100.  I made a ghetto system and it has worked very well for quite some time now. I've contemplated buying a used tri-loc for a few months now to see if we can benefit more with a professionally built system.