Why so little ink???

[Screened Gear]

Hey guys need some help here,

Ok so I have been printing on my auto for over a year and I am getting really good at it. I understand how things work. I get the OEM thing. I get the pressure and chopper level thing. I feel really good about my prints. Why is it last night when I was printing a 5 color job I couldn't get enough ink down on the under base to cover it. I adjusted pressure, chopper level, angle on everything. I even changed the off contact. I know it sounds like too much pressure. I tried that. I even thought it was OEM. I took the job off the auto and put it on the manual and it printed fine. Good coverage and everything with the same exact screens. I even tried to print it as hard as I could and it printed fine. I even tried every angle possible on the print stroke - printed fine. I even tried with no off contact - printed fine.

Auto I use a 70 squeegee on some and a 75/90/75 on others. I think I had a 65/90/65 in there also. They all printed the same.

Manually I use a 70 or a 70/90/70 on everything.

I used the same inks and screens on both the auto and manual.

Anyone have a guess?


Thank you,

Jon

[killergraphics]

Was it on the last couple of colors or last color?

Use a lower mesh screen everywhere you can and for sure on the base.

I was at a guys shop one time. He was doing a 6 color mostly neons on a black shirt and his color layers where so thick or "high" the black outline would not all print.

I told him to put some puff stuff in it and it did its job.

But to answer the question, Do you think the ink layers are too high?

Then again it could have been a locked up screen due to flash heat.

Which colors did what?

[balloonguy]

or your choppers on that head could be bad. So even with 100 lbs of pressure the the squeegee is not really pressing down that hard. That is the first thing I would check.

[Screened Gear]

here is a little more info.

Union ink on all top colors. Ultra soft or a mix to make an ultra soft.

The white under base was Wilflex Quick and was the only color that printed right. (underbase on 230 and 230 highlight.)

[ebscreen]

Guessing bad chopper cylinders or control valve. Can be difficult
to detect if you've never seen it.

Can you print the colors on white/light with good coverage?

[Screened Gear]

Guessing bad chopper cylinders or control valve. Can be difficult
to detect if you've never seen it.

Can you print the colors on white/light with good coverage?

Its not just one color. They all printed like crap. Or maybe one of the back of the screens picked up all the ink? I am not really sure. I printed about 6-10 sample shirts and it didn't get better. I was in a hurry and I bet I missed something.

Print order...

underbase
Flash
small area of purple
small area of orange
green
white detail (printed perfect)

[Dottonedan]

So, on the auto, you have the underbase and the top white printing well? Sounds like an ink problem on the colors. Are they halftones or solid areas? Do you need to clean the backs off much? Did you change your inks? How is your mesh tension? It could be getting picked up on each color. The top won't do that and the bottom base is flashed. Sounds like pick up and something with the ink.

[Screened Gear]

So, on the auto, you have the underbase and the top white printing well? Sounds like an ink problem on the colors. Are they halftones or solid areas? Do you need to clean the backs off much? Did you change your inks? How is your mesh tension? It could be getting picked up on each color. The top won't do that and the bottom base is flashed. Sounds like pick up and something with the ink.

So, on the auto, you have the underbase and the top white printing well?
 Yes no problem there. Kind of makes me think my inks are too thin maybe???

Are they halftones or solid areas?
Solid area on all of the design no halftones. None of the screens were locked up when I took them to the manual.

Do you need to clean the backs off much?
No not at all.

Did you change your inks?
No I used the same ink on the manual. So the ink was fine.

How is your mesh tension?
Not much tension but I was really pissed it didn't print. The screens had good tension 18n to 28n Depending on the color.

I think maybe the under base was not flashed long enough and I had too much pressure on the print. The screen was sticking to the print a little but nothing crazy. Could that be it. I can't imagine it is. I have printed colors on top of unflashed under bases and still had enough ink lay down to cover.

[Dottonedan]

This is sort of where I walk in a gray area. I only know so much about printing with an auto.

Sounds def like a print Auto problem if everything looks/works well on the manual. I wonder if you could be flashing too little or too long.  Too little would leave inks being wet and would pick up more or stick to the screen and especially on thick layers of underbase.

(Too much flash can leave a sheet of plastic) and cause your inks to go ice skating (especially with low tension on top). If that were the case, the inks would be sticking to the back of the screen also.

How is your peal rate?  slow or fast?

I don't see a mesh list.  What mesh are you using?  18-28 is probably not a big jump for many, (like the benefits of whether to coat in safe light or not) but in reality, if they are all the same mesh, your tension should be relatively close, like between 25-24-26-24

Those newtons seem to indicate you are usinng 305's or 330's or even 350's.    The higher the mesh, the less tension you can get due to the thinner threads.  If you are using 230's the 28 seems high and the 18 is low. SATTI standards are 20-24 for the thinner thread 230's.

Back to the inks. You said

Union ink on all top colors. Ultra soft or a mix to make an ultra soft.

How much of anything did you add to thin it out? You may be cutting in on too thin on the auto and due to the simple nature of the manual, it looks great.

[alan802]

I'd have to see the print up close to really diagnose the problem, or at the very least, look at the design and tell you exactly how I would set it up and the mesh counts I'd use.  If you printed on a very absorbent shirt through a 230, then you'll have a hell of a time having the UB opaque enough for the top colors to pop.  But it sounds like you use a 230 to UB often and don't have these issues, but I rarely UB with a 230 unless there are halftones and fine lines.  The bigger/bolder the image is, the lower mesh count I use. 

Did you do or use anything different on this job that you usually do?  Ink, garment, etc? 

[ericheartsu]

It's possible that the flash is heating the ink to much, and curing the ink in the next screen?

[prozyan]

It's possible that the flash is heating the ink to much, and curing the ink in the next screen?

That wouldn't be solved by moving to the manual unless he cleaned/cleared the screens.

My guess would be underflashing the UB on the auto.  That's really the only thing I can think of that would cause whites to print normally and colors to print weak.  Normally you would see some white buildup on the back of the color screens, but not always.

[JBLUE]

I would be pointing my finger at this just going by the description.

Union ink on all top colors. Ultra soft or a mix to make an ultra soft.

Second thing to look at is did the base white transfer to the screen or just stick after the flash?

When you printed in on the manual did you double stroke your underprint or did you get it to hit in one pass?

Did you use the push stroke on your manual or pull?

 Did you double stroke the underprint on the auto?

Going from the auto to the manual is not going to tell you much unless you mimic the auto exactly which is very difficult to do with consistency for trouble shooting.

[3Deep]

On my auto the underbase prints like crap until #1 the ink starts to flow after a few good print strokes #2 the pallets are all warmed up which helps the ink flow better. #3 Sometimes I have to add a little reducer to the white ink so it won't be so stiff, or you can use a bevel squeegee blade which will really help on white inks, just my 3 cents.

Darryl

[Denis Kolar]

Ok so I have been printing on my auto for over a year and I am getting really good at it. I understand how things work. I get the OEM thing.

Hey, Jon.
I'm getting a bit confused here. As a newbie, I do not know all the terms.
Did you mean EOM instead of OEM? (Emulsion over mesh)

If not, what is the OEM?

Thanks