Looking to buy my first film printer, need advice!

[daria]

I've been screen printing drawings onto paper for 10 years now using the photocopiers at office max and when the image is too big I've just been taping multiple 8.5 by 11s together to make larger images. But I'm finally fed up with doing things the hard way! I'm ready to invest in a wide format printer that's opaque enough to not require doubling up of transparencies. I'm not sure what to look for. I don't use half tones, my work is line art, but very detailed and with my average prints being 8-10 colors I require tight registration. The photocopy method has just gotten too messy for me with the transparencies sliding around in the machine warping my images so that nothing lines up right. anyhow, anyone have advice for me? I have a decent budget and will use the printer quite a bit, but not as much as T-shirt printing shops or a larger business.

[blue moon]

Hi Daria,

welcome to the forum! How big do you want to print? There are several good printers on the market varying in sizes from 13" to 48" wide. For the most part, they are made by EPSON even though some of the HP's are used by some. In 13" width (would let you print 13x19) 1400 seems to be the choice. Going to 17" wide (for 17x22 or 17" wide on a roll with almost unlimited length) epson 4000 series (4000, 4800, 4880, 4900) seems to be the choice. Going bigger are the 7000 and I think the 9000 series. While these are not your only choices (there are some other printers in the 1000, 2000 and 3000 series), from what I can gather these are the most popular.

We are running a 4800 with a 1400 for a backup. They were purchased based on the recommendations from other printers and some research. Both of these are running through a RIP program that allows denser ink deposit. I don't know how well they would do without it. Certainly, the films should be usable, but where on the sliding scale between usable and perfect would they fall, I have no clue.

If you are trying to avoid buying a RIP, EPSON 3000 could make an excellent choice. It is a little dated, but when set to transparency mode it overprints and provides dark deposits. It is 17" wide so hopefully it is big enough for you. Further more, the ink is very cheap ($6-$7 for a 110ml cartridge). It does print in reverse when in transparency mode, but all you have to do is reveres your art (or if possible select print in reverse mode in the print dialog).

Also, the film choice is pretty important for a good outcome. We have gone through few different manufacturers and have settled on what works for our combination of printer ink and film. Film ranges from downright incompatible to excellent. Get some suggestions for ink, and stick with it. Film is easy to change so order some samples and see what gives the best results.

And as always, ask questions. No need to go through something if one of us already has and is willing to share! It can save you a lot of headache.

pierre

[Gilligan]

If they see no need to run halftones and want to keep the printer a full color printer (for other purposes), I would bet they could get away with out a RIP and just tweak out the settings in the advanced section of the control panel for the printer.

I could be completely wrong... but if not using halftones or need to go with all black carts, then it certainly is something they should investigate in.

[daria]

Thanks for the tips! I am looking at the epson 1430 right now, I think that size is good for me, I tend to work not much bigger than 12 x 18. I'm not sure how the 1400 is different from the 1430, maybe a newer model? I see that screen print suppliers sell it as  a kit with film and the RIP software. I am looking to get tight registration and good solid blacks, I have tried using some recommended film in the past with an older color epson I had and I wasn't happy with the results, the film wasn't opaque enough and had dome kind of light streaking, I did a lot of printer nozzle cleaning (or whatever you call that) but the streaks wouldn't stop happening. I am wondering if the streaks came from the printer's roller or something, (I've heard using waterproof film might fix that?) so I definitely want a better set up than that. Is it true that the only way to use all black cartridges and to make them all print is to use the RIP software? I'm not opposed it buying that if it makes everything work better. But I am wondering how time consuming it is to run a digital image through that software, is it a complicated process? Thank again!

[Gilligan]

Actually the RIP would be faster than tweaking your settings manually.

[balloonguy]

okay- now I know my suggestion is very high priced but... you get what you pay for. If you want completely worry free films that will last a long time check Oyo out. I bought a refurb from them several years ago. If I have a set of seps that is missing 1 color or need to change 1 thing I can print that 1 missing piece 6 years later and it will perfectly line up with original set. The film is dense and makes easier exposures.
Just my opinion, but you did ask.
Matt

[blue moon]

Thanks for the tips! I am looking at the epson 1430 right now, I think that size is good for me, I tend to work not much bigger than 12 x 18. I'm not sure how the 1400 is different from the 1430, maybe a newer model? I see that screen print suppliers sell it as  a kit with film and the RIP software. I am looking to get tight registration and good solid blacks, I have tried using some recommended film in the past with an older color epson I had and I wasn't happy with the results, the film wasn't opaque enough and had dome kind of light streaking, I did a lot of printer nozzle cleaning (or whatever you call that) but the streaks wouldn't stop happening. I am wondering if the streaks came from the printer's roller or something, (I've heard using waterproof film might fix that?) so I definitely want a better set up than that. Is it true that the only way to use all black cartridges and to make them all print is to use the RIP software? I'm not opposed it buying that if it makes everything work better. But I am wondering how time consuming it is to run a digital image through that software, is it a complicated process? Thank again!

you are right, 1430 is a newer version of the 1400. The only downfall to it (1400 & 1430) is the small ink cartridge capacity. They are cheap, but do not last very long (about 10ml of ink compared to the 110 or even 220 in some models). There are CIS (continuous ink system) kits out there at a reasonable price.
We use Acorn water proof film (sold by many under different names) and are having very good results with it. I have tried the FIxxons and the results were not bad (only printed few sheets to test it and did not find any faults).

You should try printing without a RIP and see what happens. My guess is, you will not need one. If you do, there are several on the market. AcuRip is easy to use and requires very little knowledge. Film Maker is a little more complex with a little better output. I think FM is slightly cheaper and they are running a special for the workforce 1100 (check here cadlink.com) which would make it significantly cheaper.

The registration will not be better with the RIP, the only benefit to you would be darker images. If at some point you decide to print halftones, RIP is almost a must.  It would also let you print with multiple black cartridges, but for low volume, one black might be enough. Keeping the colors would also allow you to keep printing the colors for proofing and when ever needed. AccuRIP will not add any time to printing and Film Maker might add 5-10 seconds before everything goes to the printer (this can be eliminated in the settings, but I like to preview the images before committing to the film). They are both set up as printers so you just go through your regular printing steps, difference being which printer you select in the drop down box. Both AR and FM have a trial version, so it would not cost anything to give it a shot.

pierre

[ericheartsu]

the 1430 is the newer version of the 1400. We just upgraded to one and it works FANTASTIC. i highly suggest grabbing one of these printers and the all black systems from accurip.

[daria]

wow, so much helpful info, thanks so much! ericheartsu, I am wondering if you could explain the all black system from accurip, it sounds like what I think I should do. Is that the accurip program allows me to load all 6 cartridges as black? Is that the same thing as the blackmax ink system or something different? Thanks again!

[Gilligan]

You got it.

[ericheartsu]

wow, so much helpful info, thanks so much! ericheartsu, I am wondering if you could explain the all black system from accurip, it sounds like what I think I should do. Is that the accurip program allows me to load all 6 cartridges as black? Is that the same thing as the blackmax ink system or something different? Thanks again!

Correct, it's an accurip feature that allows you to load black cartidges into all 6 slots. It's a total money and headache saver!

[jasonl]

okay- now I know my suggestion is very high priced but... you get what you pay for. If you want completely worry free films that will last a long time check Oyo out. I bought a refurb from them several years ago. If I have a set of seps that is missing 1 color or need to change 1 thing I can print that 1 missing piece 6 years later and it will perfectly line up with original set. The film is dense and makes easier exposures.
Just my opinion, but you did ask.
Matt

and when the head goes out, $5000, I know, i used it for 13 years.  Great product but dead technology. 

[cbjamel]

I have the 4800 for film and 4880 for dye sub, both great printers and fast. Rolled film way cheaper than sheets. I did the std cartridges for 2-3years then went to 1 black with film direct, 1 black, rest cleaning solutions. 2-3 ttimes of buying cartridges already paid for. 220 cart took me aprox 1 year to go thru. Don't let go below half way, wont print ink. Refilled no problems. bought extra bottle.  I run GDS/filmaker rip no problems 35-85 lpi.  I owuld pend money on rip, well worth it for right amount of ink (10%-200%) I think,  and halftones.

For what it 's worth.

Shane

[screenxpress]

I'm still using the HP9800.  It will do 11x17 and 13x19 very nicely. 

For starters, if you need to do halftones, use GHOST (free rip).  That will get you started (and I STILL use it).

[ebscreen]

It's my understanding that pigment based (read: newer) systems typically require a RIP
as well as multiple black cartridges installed. Apparently pigment based ink is not a s lightfast
as the older dye based. Long live the Epson Stylus Pro 000 series.