Wilflex Epic PC system for WOW?

[ZooCity]

So, getting set to run a sim color job, it looks like some of my inks may not be opaque enough possibly.  We've been using the WFX Epic PC set and my WFX rep told me that the standard mixes run somewhere between a WOW and an opaque/standard ink.

Based on that, I went ahead and cut 10% Soft Hand base into my Regular base in the mix.  That is if it calls for 400 g of Reg base, I used 40g Soft Hand and 360g Regular.  Same pigment load as the formula, just a touch of soft hand in there.  I didn't presume this would effect the opacity much and the colors were spot on in the cups.  Yet, in addition to some other, larger issues, it looks like the opacity is also a problem.

What are you WFX Epic users doing for WOW?   This job is running on White Ts by the way on higher mesh counts 310/30, 330/30 and there was even two 225/40 in the initial (failed) strike off but even those didn't seem to be getting it opaque enough.  My next angle of attack is to wait for my WFX rep to get back to me and discuss and probably just boost up the pigment loads.  Unless there's something I'm missing about the regular Epic base?

[jasonl]

i stock about 20 of there standard epic colors, used to be genesis, now its epic.  Basically the same thing minus the pthalates.  Been running sim process with those colors for 14 years with excellent results.  Don't know why you would bother with the base and pigments unless your customers demand pms matches.  We design our art with our color pallete and it always works.  Just my opinion.

[blue moon]

So, getting set to run a sim color job, it looks like some of my inks may not be opaque enough possibly.  We've been using the WFX Epic PC set and my WFX rep told me that the standard mixes run somewhere between a WOW and an opaque/standard ink.

Based on that, I went ahead and cut 10% Soft Hand base into my Regular base in the mix.  That is if it calls for 400 g of Reg base, I used 40g Soft Hand and 360g Regular.  Same pigment load as the formula, just a touch of soft hand in there.  I didn't presume this would effect the opacity much and the colors were spot on in the cups.  Yet, in addition to some other, larger issues, it looks like the opacity is also a problem.

What are you WFX Epic users doing for WOW?   This job is running on White Ts by the way on higher mesh counts 310/30, 330/30 and there was even two 225/40 in the initial (failed) strike off but even those didn't seem to be getting it opaque enough.  My next angle of attack is to wait for my WFX rep to get back to me and discuss and probably just boost up the pigment loads.  Unless there's something I'm missing about the regular Epic base?

can we see the art? Our inks are super translucent and unless you have numerous screens to deposit enough ink, 305 mesh does not cut it.

pierre

[bimmridder]

Maybe I'm wrong. I think you need to look at your IMS software when you mix a color. It will show you minimum and maximum allowable base. The more base, the less opaque. And vice versa. If I want a strong color, I will user a base amount closer to the minimum allowable. You can copy your formula and name it as you wish, i.e. opaque gold 123. I don't have the software on this computer, but the example might have you using 650 grams of base, but the minimum might be 375. Adjust the formula as you desire, say 400 grams of base and call it opaque gold 123. It will be save in the list of colors as you name it. We do a fair amount of sim process and this works well for us.

[ZooCity]

Maybe I'm wrong. I think you need to look at your IMS software when you mix a color. It will show you minimum and maximum allowable base. The more base, the less opaque. And vice versa. If I want a strong color, I will user a base amount closer to the minimum allowable. You can copy your formula and name it as you wish, i.e. opaque gold 123. I don't have the software on this computer, but the example might have you using 650 grams of base, but the minimum might be 375. Adjust the formula as you desire, say 400 grams of base and call it opaque gold 123. It will be save in the list of colors as you name it. We do a fair amount of sim process and this works well for us.

Just spoke with Jerry and yep, that sounds like the route. We currently have 1 windows computer in the whole operation and it's at our retail space so I haven't gotten into using it enough yet.  Still adjusting to the PC system as well.  I do have a sweet Sartorious scale that I'm going to hookup to a netbook and the IMS as well as a thermal printer soon. 

i stock about 20 of there standard epic colors, used to be genesis, now its epic.  Basically the same thing minus the pthalates.  Been running sim process with those colors for 14 years with excellent results.  Don't know why you would bother with the base and pigments unless your customers demand pms matches.  We design our art with our color pallete and it always works.  Just my opinion.

Agreed, but I didn't do these seps, I'll be honing that in over the year.

Art's attached Pierre, I have Mr. Dan on this one so yes, there lot's of overlayed colors building up the ink deposit. 

[ebscreen]

The beauty of PC's is being able to alter pigment load.

That said, for both opacity and blending, waterbased can't be beat.

[blue moon]

where are you having the problems? The solid blue area in the clef is going to lack coverage if using a 305 or 330 and only one ink color. A lot of the other mixes seem to have very little color to them and I can see the print looking grainy as a consequence.

Not really sure what the solution is, sorry. I think Dan should be able to help you out on this one!

pierre

[blue moon]

where are you having the problems? The solid blue area in the clef is going to lack coverage if using a 305 or 330 and only one ink color. A lot of the other mixes seem to have very little color to them and I can see the print looking grainy as a consequence.

Not really sure what the solution is, sorry. I think Dan should be able to help you out on this one!

pierre

wait, I just remembered . . . are you printing white? That would help!

pierre

[JBLUE]

What base are you using? MP, Amazing base, Genesis, or? That will make a difference.

[ZooCity]

15000PFB.........EpicPFMixingBase  as noted I cut the base with 10% soft hand. 

I'm going to recalculate the min base for these and probably add back PC pigment.  The strike off is just crazy hideous.  You can tell the seps are good but the color looks like washed out process inks basically. The second wavy bar up from the bottom, the pale blue one printed out green with the blue and yellow on the first to screens so that does certainly indicate too much transparency and maybe not enough ink going down.   

For the record, Dot-Tone-Dan is one responsive son of a gun, he was on it in minutes after I messaged him about it.  Props!

Pierre, no crush/wet white in this print.  6 colors, 55lpi 22.5deg round dot.  All WOW on white 980s.

Yellow  225/40
Teal     225/40
Red     310/30
Green  310/30
Dark Blue  330/30
Black         330/30

I just got more mesh in today and can stretch up more 310s and try to run it all on that but what would you do Pierre?  You know the higher S meshes better than many judging by your work.  I'd hate to drop down to 45lpi and run on 225/40 all around but I'll do it if I have to.  This was actually a job I tried to avoid at the moment but I'm always game for a little halftone challenge to sharpen up my skills. 

And yeah, this job screams WB.  Was just working out the HVAC system in the new space so for now it's patience for this young padawan. 

You all are the jam, thx for the help so far.

[blue moon]

just so we are in the clear, I have NO IDEA what the problem is! I am just throwing stuff out there to see what sticks. Your ink system is a complete unknown to me so I am having a hard time wrapping my head around it. The perspective I can share is related to the regular ready to mix plastisol mixing system.

I think 330 should be able to put down enough ink to get a good deposit, but I would not be surprised if I had to use all the tricks up my sleeve to make it happen. This  would include, softer blade, lower angle, slower stroke and as the last resort, two strokes (which probably generates the same results as all the others combined).

When stuck like this, I just start changing things and use that to figure out what's going on. Based on what you said, I'd mix the blue with higher pigment concentrate and print a couple of shirts to see what that does. If it is not the culprit, change something else.

Check your screens and make sure your exposing correctly.  Our vacuum was weak and we were losing some fine detail. It took as a few days to figure out what the problem was.

sorry I could not be of more help!

pierre

[ZooCity]

Update:

• Shut off linearization controls in AR, re-outputted film.
• Used IMS software to calc how much pigment to add back to my PMS mixes to get at or close to max pigment load.
• Re-shot on all 310/30 with Black on 330/30 again

Looks like a success.  There's one tiny element of the art that was lost but it wasn't really found on the original either.  I may back off the red just a hint as well as the black but this is pull #3 so we'll see what #8 looks like.  Thanks for the help and troubleshooting everyone.

I'm happy. Hope the client is, they wanted a printed sample but didn't want to pay so they're getting digitals, the option to pickup the strike off for inspection and 2-3 hours for approval.  I might start a new thread on how you all handle clients that demand samples on small orders.  This one is 300 pcs for example so I would typically charge for that service unless they are willing to approve within a window that works in the shop schedule that day then it's on the house. 

[Colin]

Looks good! 

Not having known formulas for increasing Opacity/pigment load has been my only knock on pigment and color booster based mixing systems.  But at the same time I love the flexibility that same system gives you.

Question:  Why a July 2013 date on the design?

[ZooCity]

Thanks!

Event is next year but they are beginning sales of the Ts now.  Oddly enough they're having two of us printshops here in town print the run.  I'm curious to compare them myself if I get the chance.

The PC system is pretty much no good without the IMS software.  The pigment:base ratios are all over the map for each given color and you need the system to get you the figures.

[Dottonedan]

Zoo, what a difference!  It looks awesome! So, did the customer give an approval
Good job. I'm so glad you were very receptive to all the feedback. The results are substantial.

Take care.
Dot-tone