Matsui discharge sample...

[alan802]

Which yellow Alan? try not to go over 4% and you should be good.

Texcharge SMS Yellow RS.  I was going to go with 3.5% for the first samples. 

[Prosperi-Tees]

Make sure you post a pic, im leaning toward pulling the trigger on all the colors.

[alan802]

I've got my hands full today but I'm shooting for this afternoon to get a print done.  I'm losing my screen guy, my engraver is out because he's going through radiation and hormone therapy for his prostate cancer, and the guy that schedules the screen printing jobs is out for who knows how many more days so I'm doing 3 people's jobs right now.  Does anybody feel sorry for me yet?  I didn't think so.

[Prosperi-Tees]

Not quite yet Alan. lol

[Dottonedan]

How is the hand on that using a 2 hits of a 110 mesh?  Tho discharge base and pigments, I'd think the 110 give it a feel.  Does it really need (two hits)?  I would have though that since it's discharge (of a solid area), you could use a higher mesh like a 156, but showing a need for two hits sort of takes that theory out of the options.

One thing I know about halftone discharge is it changes how you should separate a job for sim process. The waterbase inks as well as Rutlands M3's are very transparent. You can't control or balance the colors out like you normally do with the more opaque plastisol inks.

For example, Using a white discharge underbase, the dots (even the 3% dots in a fade) are SUPER VIBRANT like 90% opacity. So when putting color over top that, yes, it makes it BRIGHT and is what most are looking for, but can be overkill easily if not paying close attention to this in the seps. The FADE is not as faded as you would think (because of the luminance) of the dot. Using Plastisol, the smaller the dots get, the easier it is for the inks strength to be obsorbed by the surrounding area (and obsorbed by the garment color). In Plastisol high mesh underbases like a 230, the inks looks gray or about 65% white but in discharge, it's about 85-90% white.
That alone, can throw off the results of your seps if you are not to used to it.

For the luminance, think of when you were a kid and got up close to your TV and could see those BRIGHT shoots of color "the RGB" cones.  Think of a 3% dot as a CONE of color. That color reflects or shoots off the discharge underbase in a similar way. If you separate this like a traditional job using plastisol inks and regular inks over top, you will come out with an overpowered print. Another thing to consider is the use of BLACK. You print this early on and about 50% to 35% of the halftone opacity that you normally would in traditional printing of plastisol inks.

With Waterbase as well as discharge underbases and Rutland inks, you need to change up the print sequence from light to dark over to Dark down first, and lighter colors on top. So all yellow goes over top of the reds and blues and blacks. Black typically should go just after the underbase. Just my recent observations and experiences.

[jasonl]

How is the hand on that using a 2 hits of a 110 mesh?  Tho discharge base and pigments, I'd think the 110 give it a feel.  Does it really need (two hits)?  I would have though that since it's discharge (of a solid area), you could use a higher mesh like a 156, but showing a need for two hits sort of takes that theory out of the options.

One thing I know about halftone discharge is it changes how you should separate a job for sim process. The waterbase inks as well as Rutlands M3's are very transparent. You can't control or balance the colors out like you normally do with the more opaque plastisol inks.

For example, Using a white discharge underbase, the dots (even the 3% dots in a fade) are SUPER VIBRANT like 90% opacity. So when putting color over top that, yes, it makes it BRIGHT and is what most are looking for, but can be overkill easily if not paying close attention to this in the seps. The FADE is not as faded as you would think (because of the luminance) of the dot. Using Plastisol, the smaller the dots get, the easier it is for the inks strength to be obsorbed by the surrounding area (and obsorbed by the garment color). In Plastisol high mesh underbases like a 230, the inks looks gray or about 65% white but in discharge, it's about 85-90% white.
That alone, can throw off the results of your seps if you are not to used to it.

For the luminance, think of when you were a kid and got up close to your TV and could see those BRIGHT shoots of color "the RGB" cones.  Think of a 3% dot as a CONE of color. That color reflects or shoots off the discharge underbase in a similar way. If you separate this like a traditional job using plastisol inks and regular inks over top, you will come out with an overpowered print. Another thing to consider is the use of BLACK. You print this early on and about 50% to 35% of the halftone opacity that you normally would in traditional printing of plastisol inks.

With Waterbase as well as discharge underbases and Rutland inks, you need to change up the print sequence from light to dark over to Dark down first, and lighter colors on top. So all yellow goes over top of the reds and blues and blacks. Black typically should go just after the underbase. Just my recent observations and experiences.

Dude, you make it a bit to complicated.  I just do what works.  After wash on this sample if you close your eyes and try to feel for a ink deposit, its impossible.  ZERO feel at all.

[Dottonedan]

Understandable answer since I went off talking about sim process also. I figured you'de want to talk about that sine eventually you will do that with discharge right?  Most all want to.

My basic question pertaining to your print, is, when we all decide to try discharge, is this how we do solid prints? do we all normally need to hit that twice or is it just something you did just for good measure? Is the point to really saturate the garment with the discharge?

[jasonl]

Honestly, when i did one stroke, I noticed there was an area that I didnt clean the screen good.  So I did it one more time.  Also, I did this on the manual, and I NEVER print on the manual.  Just wanted to try this Matsui sample I have.  IF I print more, I will put it on my auto and probably only use one stroke.  I am POSITIVE it will work with one stroke.  I like to use 110 for my discharge stuff as it saturates the fabric better and after its washed you dont see black between the weave.  Hope that helps.

[Prosperi-Tees]

On the manual I always do 2 strokes but I normally use 156 mesh. On the auto its only one hard fast stroke same mesh.

[ravenmark]

Got my sample of the print today at work. The 123 Yellow is very vibrant and the hand is like the print is almost not existent. After a couple more washes and it will be hard to tell it it was not wove that way lol. Very nice saturation into the fabric also when you pull the weave apart.

@ Dan normally when we do sim process we manipulate the substrate on an atomic level by a proprietary telepathy enhancing technology making it reflect light in a way that makes it appear as it is printed in 3D. Totally doesn't work if you want something to appear flat though, total bummer.

[screenxpress]

@ Dan normally when we do sim process we manipulate the substrate on an atomic level by a proprietary telepathy enhancing technology making it reflect light in a way that makes it appear as it is printed in 3D.

Ahhhh, NOW I understand!!

Thanks.

[tonypep]

To touch briefly on this; not all sim process seps for black garments will work for discharge. The primary example of why is when a separator relies on a percentage tone underbase to create secondary and tertiary values of a specific color or colors.

[Dottonedan]

@ Dan normally when we do sim process we manipulate the substrate on an atomic level by a proprietary telepathy enhancing technology making it reflect light in a way that makes it appear as it is printed in 3D. Totally doesn't work if you want something to appear flat though, total bummer.

Awe,  It's clear then. Your whole problem is the lack of a Flux Capacitor.

[jasonl]

and I know for a fact that the Flux Capacitor is hanging on the wall at Plant Hollywood Paris.  I should have took it!

[ravenmark]

Awe,  It's clear then. Your whole problem is the lack of a Flux Capacitor.

Dude they are mondo expensive! LOL