hoodie job coming back because of colors bleeding into eachother...

[alan802]

If you are laying them on top of one another right after the dryer, that red ink can bleed into the white due to the high heat they are under.

True but in this case I didnt use an under base I printed the white pfp with a 1% trap and then red pfp  , the red portion is a big ass square the white is text in the middle. I have used this ink combo before many of times without issues. Typically though I always print on 50/50 hoodies these were cotton so perhaps my dwell time wasnt long enough?

I didn't explain it very well, but I meant what Inkman said earlier, but it happening when stacked.  It can happen in the dryer as well like Ink said.  The red ink basically starts to sublimate and contaminates the white that is in close proximity. We had this problem last week with one poly shirt mixed in with a 100% cotton job, black shirts.  Red and white design, red on top of underbase white, with white text PFP at the bottom and the white turned pink because my guy stacked another shirt with the back print touching the front print and the red ink sublimated into the white ink.

Now if you are sure that it wasn't there until a washing it could still be crocking and the ink rubbing off, but I still think it could be the red subbing.  It could happen in the clothes dryer, the red might have continued to sublimate under that heat and contaminated the white.

[ScreenFoo]

I'm curious as to what red ink you're using--the IC and Union stuff we use will wet crock just a little, if you beat the crap out of it, but I've never had problems anything like what you pictured.
Should have mentioned it before, look at the tags if you're trying to figure out if a garment is a redye--ever wonder why the occasional tag is pink?  Now you know.

Alan's story is quite interesting--yet another thing to watch for.  That list never gets any shorter.

Oh well... got a white and red print on hoodies--gotta go out by 4...   
(Seriously)

[Screened Gear]

Not exactly the same thing but I had some gildan shirts that were miss tagged once. They said 100 cotton but were 50/50. That messed up a 2 color on black job I did. I smelled the poly in the dryer and didn't think much of it. Latter all the smalls were faded out. It was a mess. The client was going to be here in 2 hours. I had to go get new shirts and have them printed. The supplier had all poly shirts in small (labeled as 100% cotton) so I printed a white under base for low bleed and was fine. I got new shirts but nothing for making my day a nightmare, should I have billed them?

[Prosperi-Tees]

I used some IC high pugment inks that did that PFP.  I changed it to a white underbase and red print on top and it didnt happen again.

On a side note who makes 100% cotton hoodies/sweatshirts?

[ebscreen]

To avoid, put down as little ink as possible, and use a general purpose ink.

150-180 mesh for the white/ub, PFP
red on 180-305, single hit


Hanes PrintPro's are %90 cotton, and discharge beautifully. AA makes a few
%100 cotton hoodies but those are more like light sweaters.

[Frog]

All Hanes are Print Pros, you mean the Ultimate Cotton, F160, F170, F180

[brandon]

Hanes PrintPro's are %90 cotton, and discharge beautifully. AA makes a few
%100 cotton hoodies but those are more like light sweaters.

Yeah, they work pretty well. The AA's discharge awesome but are thin. Wanna say ITC has some that discharge well too. Been using them a lot more these days.

[ebscreen]

ITC does discharge well, but I had 2 out of a large run that just did not discharge at all.
We've seen it on tee's, but a little scary with zippered fleece.

[Colin]

Honestly, that looks like it is more likely to be garment bleed.  Unless something is really really wacky with the inks you are using.

When you look in close you can see that the "bleed" is mottled in apperance.  To be more descriptive, where there is a bit more ink layed down between the peaks and valleys of the fabric there is less apparent bleed and more visible white.  Check it out.

If it was crocking, you would see streaks, it would not show up in the pattern shown in the pic, and it would not be over the entirety of the white print as we have seen.  You can easily test this yourselves by rubbing the red on a white print and observing the pattern it leaves behind.

Also, you would typically see the edges of the white have a pink "fade"  where the red pigment was actually transfering into the white.  His edges look really good and are typicall of a standard print trap.

As for black garments bleeding red.  We have seen it happen on more multiple occasions and I have seen it also bleed blue numerous times.  It can be the result of an over dye or the consentration of colors used to make black "black".  Typically it will be red or blue shades in high concentration.

I would want to see a pic of the garments that "washed out" or were cracking though.  All the comments on temp while printing sweats is very accurate, especially during winter when a garment will hold a ton of moisture.

As for red pigments and crocking.  It's the nature of the beast.  You can buy pigments that are heinously expensive that will "lower" the chance of crocking, but it will never actually go a away.

Sorry to hear about the bad run of sweats Shawn.  You are an great guy and a great printer.  You have been around this long and have succeded and I beleive you will continue to succed.

[Printficient]

After talking to Shawn as to the bleeding I suspect he got a hold of some re-dyed hoodies.  I had a customer who had this exact problem to the tune of 10's of thousands of sweats and hoodies.  The brands were Hanes and Gildan.  Every underbase ink was tried and failed.  Xenon included.  I will say that Xenon was as good as all the others and better than Dynogrey at bleed resistance.

[Northland]

I had an order of BLACK 50/50 hoodies that went bad (luckily it was a small order and not all of them went bad).
It was gray and white plastisol print (QCM).... I probably cured 'em too hot (maybe 380 degrees).
The White ink turned Pink. Yep... no red anywhere on the garment, the pink had to come from the BLACK hoodie dye.

[ZooCity]

Pretty sure Andy nailed it with the crocking suggestion. Reds are known to do this, especially
high pigment reds, then add in the fact that you P/F/P over an already P/F/P underbase, and you've
got a lot of ink/pigment sitting there. Washing machine will surely pick that up and deposit it
on that nearby bright white.

+1 on this.

You can get non-migrating red pigment but it costs an arm and a leg.  All the same, a properly batched ink should not do this.  Without going to discharge I would simply weaken the pigment load from the red and use it over a UB. 

That said, the pic really looked like the red pigment wandered into the white rather than rubbed onto it.  It's hard to say with the great variance in how people wash their clothing, some like to throw everything into boiling hot bleach water and then throw it into a screaming hot dryer for an hour and not turn their garments inside out.  These are the folks that see a lot of shrinkage as well.

Shanarchy: there was a run of Red YS from QCM that had more than the usual crock issues for a red awhile back, your issue may have stemmed from that.  In my case, they had a sourcing issue with their red pigment and when it finally came in and I mixed up some brown it migrated like a sonofabitch, I lost a client over it.  I was getting some bull about that being normal for red (again, technically true) from them and decided to run the next job with some XOLB stock brown from years previous that I had by simply darkening it with 911 black to match the bad mix aforementioned.   No crock issues there and same color of finished ink.  It's rare for the ink to be the problem but this was one of those circumstance.

So this is a real issue with the pigment but avoidable with proper formulation, consistency and application.  Crock test when in doubt.  You can glean a lot by wetting a white t shirt rag an rubbing the cured print down.  ....that sounded really dirty for some reason.  Over and out. 

[ZooCity]

I just read Colin and Sonny's posts and I'm leaning that way too.  It's just too consistent from the pic but then again a hot washing could have shook the pigment loose from the print and the hoodie.   Could have been a perfect sh!tstorm.   Sorry to hear that man. 

[Homer]

ok, so let's say he got re-dyed shirts -now what?  Can he go back at the supplier and get compensated here or does this fall under "test before doing a full production run" . .since redyed shirts aren't necessarily faulty shirts, I am assuming no

[Shawn (EIP)]

I have used this red ink for at least 4 fleese print jobs in the past even red ink on white hoodies.Considering this has never been an issue before has me leaning towards fabric re-dye migration.