New desktop computer....any advice?

[GraphicDisorder]

yes, it is dated, that was never in dispute. That's why it is cheap. 250 for the system, 150 for the Windows and 80 for RAM will bring it up to much more than usable specs.

Hmm, I am not sure where you come from or what you put on a computer but  146gb drive.  That will never do for most screen printers.  He will at the very least have to add a secondary hard drive and if he puts a lot of programs on his machine, or he will have to pick and choose what he installs so he will have somewhere to save new files?.  Things get real tight on a drive that small. 

He would need 500gb or more IMO since he mentioned he didn't want to do this again for awhile.  He'd spend another $100 ball park on a drive like that roughly.  This computer is already around $600 to be "usable".  Hmm, by my math, id spend a few hundred more for something more powerful and has room for upgrades. 

It will be a reliable and plenty fast machine. Is your's faster? Yes it is. Is it $500? no it is not. Can you buy something comparable for that kind of money? I doubt it. In my eyes, this is a good value that will reliably perform everything one needs in a shop for next three to four years.

I don't think its a bad value, but its wildly under powered compared to today's computers.  Listen, this isn't a dick measuring contest but of course my machine is faster.  It has drastically faster processor (4 cores with more cache and hyper threading vs 2 cores and half the cache), faster ram, more ram, faster hard drives (several of them), comparable video card (not as important as you are pushing it out to be), and so on. I think that computer you are linking out is perfect for SOME situations.  In no way, shape or form, in 2012 would I recommend a computer a designer that maxs out at 8gb of ram and only has 146gb (before format) hard drive and uses a processor you can't even buy at the most common computer retailer in the world because it's so old.  That's my stance, and its fair. 

[Gilligan]

Let's be fair here.

Yes, Pierre said "think Xeon" and this is FAR FAR FAR from that.  Not sure how those wires got crossed but that could be looked at as some SERIOUS misleading.

But Brandt.  Sure, 146gb is "small" but it's perfectly fine for an OS drive and it IS 15k RPM's... this is TWICE as fast as what you accused him of having in that system.  Do you honestly suggest having a single 2TB 7200 RPM drive in a system would be better?  I believe you only have a 10k RPM drive and it's your OS drive and you have other 7200 RPM drives for data and such.  I got no beef with that hard drive... I put a SSD drive in the wife's monster... it's REALLY small... but it's only the OS drive.  I want it to be super fast... and it is.

I think basically we have two fairly different scenarios.

$500 bucks... POSSIBLY the ebay PC maybe the better bang for buck and it's ESPECIALLY better for someone that doesn't want to pick up a screwdriver or glance at a manual to see where to plug some header cables in (all EXTREMELY easy btw).

Beyond that though... it is REALLY hard not to start dancing circles around these systems with some basic quality components for about 1k in a custom built system.


But fellas, try to keep a level head and stick to facts and be honest about those facts... I think both of you guys are kind of spreading it on a little thick in your own favor at times.

[mk162]

also, 146 is fine if you have a server that stores all of your files.  I have 2 1TB drives in my machine and love it, but I don't really need that anymore.

[Gilligan]

Joking aside - I could build a computer with workstation components that would equal the performance of a high end Mac.  They essentially would have the same parts.  The difference would be the price and the operating system.

And technically you could make it a "hackintosh" and have nearly the EXACT same system for a fraction of the cost.

Let's face it... Macs are a good machine for the stated reasons (tested hardware... if you are able to control what goes in every pc then you can make it fit the OS better).  BUT... they are hyper inflated cost wise.  You are buying the name and the marketing hype and paying quite the premium on it.

If you want to walk in a store and buy a PC off the shelf it will be hard to do better than a Mac... granted, you just spent 3x what the other pc's in the store cost so you SHOULD get the best PC.  If you brought that same money to me and put it down on my counter and said "This is my budget, build me a monster."  I would build you an incredible machine that would rival the Mac, I'd make a decent profit and we would both go home happy.

[blue moon]

agreed, that the hard drive is small and additional capacity will be needed.

This is a good drive for the operating system and good enough to get started. Next step would be to add a data drive that can go inside or externally and another for backup.

As I often said before, the used computer factory stopped taking orders and they don't make any any more. You have to pick from what's available. If there is nothing there now, wait a little and try again.

pierre

[blue moon]

I did not say that all the thinkstations are Xeon processors, just that they can have it. This particular one did not.

I had a chance to look around a little bit and found this:
https://shop.itxchange.com/OA_HTML/xxtgeibeCCtdItemDetail.jsp?sitex=10020:22372:US&item=297098

S20, will support up to 48GB of RAM, comes with Win 7, 90 day warranty and bigger drive.
If it was my money, this is what I would be buying. One available, sitting in NC.

I would add some RAM as 4 will get you going, but more would be better.

pierre

[GraphicDisorder]

Let's be fair here.

Yes, Pierre said "think Xeon" and this is FAR FAR FAR from that.  Not sure how those wires got crossed but that could be looked at as some SERIOUS misleading.

Exactly my point. 

But Brandt.  Sure, 146gb is "small" but it's perfectly fine for an OS drive and it IS 15k RPM's... this is TWICE as fast as what you accused him of having in that system. 

 

Yes it is perfectly fine for a OS drive, however thats not how this machine is being "pimped".  Some of these guys looking at it wouldn't understand that 146gb is NOT enough for anything other than OS and programs.  You certainly couldn't use it for much of any storage of files.  It's misleading is all.  Also I haven't pointed out a weakness in drive speed since he listed it as being a 15krpm drive other than when he compared it to my system which runs SSD.

Do you honestly suggest having a single 2TB 7200 RPM drive in a system would be better? 

 

Never said that, but as I have already pointed out 146gb is NOT enough for OS/Programs/Storage.  How fast the drive is wont be important if you cant store any work on it?  So they will either have to put a secondary larger drive in the machine or a larger 15krpm drive (if they want that speed), or SSD. 

I believe you only have a 10k RPM drive and it's your OS drive and you have other 7200 RPM drives for data and such.

 

I have a SSD in my machine for OS and programs. I used to run a 10kRPM Vraptor, sucker slow as dirt compared to the SSD.  My Data drives yes are WD Black 7200rpm drives. 

I got no beef with that hard drive...

 

No beef either except its small, those that dont know the difference could assume it's enough for os/programs/storage of files, and its not.  If someone doesn't say that then someone may end up with a big surprise since hard drive prices are pretty high right now. 

I put a SSD drive in the wife's monster... it's REALLY small... but it's only the OS drive.  I want it to be super fast... and it is.

 

SSD Rocks, nothing like it.

[GraphicDisorder]

also, 146 is fine if you have a server that stores all of your files.  I have 2 1TB drives in my machine and love it, but I don't really need that anymore.

For sure, do you think many guys buying a budget system have a server though?

Just food for thought....

[GraphicDisorder]

I did not say that all the thinkstations are Xeon processors, just that they can have it. This particular one did not.

I had a chance to look around a little bit and found this:
https://shop.itxchange.com/OA_HTML/xxtgeibeCCtdItemDetail.jsp?sitex=10020:22372:US&item=297098

S20, will support up to 48GB of RAM, comes with Win 7, 90 day warranty and bigger drive.
If it was my money, this is what I would be buying. One available, sitting in NC.

I would add some RAM as 4 will get you going, but more would be better.

pierre

Much better computer over all. 

[blue moon]

I did not say that all the thinkstations are Xeon processors, just that they can have it. This particular one did not.

I had a chance to look around a little bit and found this:
https://shop.itxchange.com/OA_HTML/xxtgeibeCCtdItemDetail.jsp?sitex=10020:22372:US&item=297098

S20, will support up to 48GB of RAM, comes with Win 7, 90 day warranty and bigger drive.
If it was my money, this is what I would be buying. One available, sitting in NC.

I would add some RAM as 4 will get you going, but more would be better.

pierre

Much better computer over all.

yes, I agree with you. Much more bang for the buck.

[GraphicDisorder]

I did not say that all the thinkstations are Xeon processors, just that they can have it. This particular one did not.

I had a chance to look around a little bit and found this:
https://shop.itxchange.com/OA_HTML/xxtgeibeCCtdItemDetail.jsp?sitex=10020:22372:US&item=297098

S20, will support up to 48GB of RAM, comes with Win 7, 90 day warranty and bigger drive.
If it was my money, this is what I would be buying. One available, sitting in NC.

I would add some RAM as 4 will get you going, but more would be better.

pierre

Much better computer over all.

yes, I agree with you. Much more bang for the buck.

Id recommend anyone buying it take it add a SSD as main drive, move the 500 to data drive, jump ram to 12 or 16gb, and you'd have a nice rig.  But all of that probably puts you in a ball park of being able to build something at least as nice or nicer and not have to get something refurbished. 

[Gabe]

NOTE if you decide for a custom built rig you don`t need to be an expert these days to do so.
you can get a computer magazine like pc world or maximum pc
they got step by step instructions for custom built machines for all kinds of budgets
actually maximum pc is the ticket, since they are more focused on hardware
good luck
Gabe

[royster13]

http://www.tomshardware.com/system-configuration-recommendation-51.html

[Gilligan]

Do you honestly suggest having a single 2TB 7200 RPM drive in a system would be better? 

 

Never said that, but as I have already pointed out 146gb is NOT enough for OS/Programs/Storage.  How fast the drive is wont be important if you cant store any work on it?  So they will either have to put a secondary larger drive in the machine or a larger 15krpm drive (if they want that speed), or SSD.

But your "that drive is SUPER SMALL" and leaving it at that was also kind of misleading.  It left it like "this wont' work, end of story" when the truth is that 15k drive would serve just about 95% of the people here very well as their OS drive... even on their current systems now.  Granted, you are gonna shell out more money for another HD, but that doesn't change no matter what you do.

A 120gig SSD drive is over a hundred bucks alone... The 15k drives are $350 bucks new (not that I'd suggest that for anyone really).

It's hard to compare apples to apples with this systems... the CPU is super dated, the RAM is rather limited... but that HD is a smoking one for the price.  I just didn't think it was fair (from either side) to choose where to poke holes while ignoring some of the facts around those "holes".  Let's leave that kind of stuff up to Fox News.

[RICK STEFANICK]

WHAT ABOUT A 1986 MAC CLASSIC..?)