Problem with trademarked design duplication?

[Frog]

Here's the deal;

Custy wants old shirts duplicated, generally something I say no right off the bat. But now I'm curious as to what's what exactly.

These shirts have slogans, done in a particularly distinctive style. My obvious instinct and reply is that this is the same as any original art, automatically copyrighted, and not his or mine to reproduce.
What I am curious about also is the trademarked name at the bottom. I figured that this is something that can be traced to locate the owner and explore licensing. Or, what about if he claims that this is his trademarked name, how would I verify? I checked out the trademark and one with this name is filed for "Printed periodicals in the field of general human interest, especially human innovation, curiosity, and imagination"., (issued to a seemingly) different name, so I don't think that the trademarked name on the shirt is completely kosher either.


I am almost sure to pass on this one but thought that I would throw it out for discussion.

[Sbrem]

Sometimes I ask, "How many?" If someone is trying to reproduce a shirt from a party or event that happened forever ago, it's very likely not going to be an issue. Mickey and Donald obviously are another issue altogether.

Steve

[Frog]

This is the typical "next big thing" ten each of this run, and some are even more than one color, and I have already gone through the "low quantity high price" drill.

On the phone, it sounded like just text slogans, and I wasn't as concerned.
If he, however wants these done in the same artsy style as his samples, it's a no-go for sure.
I plan on talking to him in an hour and hashing this out. It's not like this is the first time I've dealt with this kind of thing. This is, however, the first time that a shirt sample has had a trademarked brand on it.

I'm dreaming that it is his!
Ha! Fat chance!

[Frog]

Follow up:

I explained. "This may present a problem as they appear to be copyrighted designs of a trademarked brand."

and he responded, "This company has not been business for over 4 years does that matter"?

I would think that someone still owns the rights to these designs.

[Prosperi-Tees]

Are we to investigate every order we do? For instance if a customer comes in and wants some letters cut in vinyl on a shirt say "ywgy". Are we supposed to go to great lengths to figure it out

[Frog]

Well, this is more like a customer bringing in an old shirt that says "YWGY" in a specifically hand-drawn font, with a company name and the TM symbol below, and asks you to copy it and print some up.

As I pointed out in the first post, these are commercially printed shirts that a customer wants duplicated. Except for size of legal teams one may need to battle, in my mind, no different than printing Harley, The Beatles, or Farah Fawcett, or a design commissioned by you from Dot Tone Dan, or any other work that you know is someone else's.

[Prosperi-Tees]

I got ya there. What if they just bring in a napkin and says I want these letters on a shirt?

[Frog]

"What ifs" are interesting to talk about, especially over a beer or six, but you've joined an industry in which you will get a lot of real requests that may challenge your ethics.
My advice is to draw a line early, and stick with it.
You will know usually if something doesn't smell right, and if not, the ®  or © is a damn good clue!

[Prosperi-Tees]

Speaking of ethics i just turned down a job that the customer wanted "I Love $luts" printed. Sorry can't print that, he was pissed and could not get out the door fast enough

[Screened Gear]

This is a interesting situation and it comes up on the board a lot. Now the real question that you should ask here is, are we the printer responsible for what the customer is asking us to print? If this went to court because this guy was caught selling the bootlegged shirts would they hunt us down? Does it make it right or wrong ethically? That is a moral issue, talk that over with yourself. By law are we as printers held responsible for being fooled by a customer that brings in copyrighted material and we take the order? Now there is obvious ones like the mouse and the swoosh, but what about the ones we don't know? What about the franchise that is suppose to order from Corporate but instead emails us from jared@subway.com and wants 100 uniforms for his staff. His handbook clearly states they have to order from corporate or it breaks copyright that is punishable by law. Do you take this job? The truth is we print copyrighted material everyday without knowing. We have no way to track it or even the time to. Like frog said this is really up to you and how you want to run your business.

Frog in your situation the client told you he does not have permission, don't print that order.

[Zelko-4-EVA]

Speaking of ethics i just turned down a job that the customer wanted "I Love $luts" printed. Sorry can't print that, he was pissed and could not get out the door fast enough

 Some of our latest shirts are masturbating topless nuns and disembodied pregnant chicks.  A shirt that says "I love $luts" would be a nice break

[Denis Kolar]

Speaking of ethics i just turned down a job that the customer wanted "I Love $luts" printed. Sorry can't print that, he was pissed and could not get out the door fast enough

What is wrong with that? That is his shirt and his opinion. Just do not save a sample, and you should be good to go

[Fluid]

If the designs were truly copyrighted than no matter if the company is still in business or not they still own the rights.  Poor mans copyright will only go so far in a court setting without the use of some very expensive lawyers and even then may not hold up.  For a design to be truly copyrighted it does need to go through the motions of the copyright process.  A Shirt that was produced so long ago you most likely wouldn't come across any issues yet you are wise to be weary. 

If you do decide to take on the job, I would explain all the issues that may arise and offer to change it up. Use the shirts as ideas but do your own thing.  Best option so you both get what you want.

[Frog]

If you do decide to take on the job, I would explain all the issues that may arise and offer to change it up. Use the shirts as ideas but do your own thing.  Best option so you both get what you want.

That is exactly the direction that I am taking. In fact, it is what I thought would be the situation from our initial conversation. I was a little surprised at the "proprietary" nature of the slogans as presented to me.

[Sbrem]

Speaking of ethics i just turned down a job that the customer wanted "I Love $luts" printed. Sorry can't print that, he was pissed and could not get out the door fast enough

What is wrong with that? That is his shirt and his opinion. Just do not save a sample, and you should be good to go

I see both sides, but, we're free to turn down anything we want. I've printed political things I don't agree with, but if they were too over the top, I'd refuse. I did turn down "Hitler's World Tour, 1938 - 1944" a bunch of years ago. Pretty much a no brainer right? But someone was looking for a printer for them...

Steve

It's OK to have a little class if you want. Masturbating nuns? That would elicit a "GTF outta here" from me, it's only money.