Waterbase flukes

[cclaud3]

We are 100% waterbased for the last 5 years out of 14 years. This is not day 1 problems.

We are getting dark spots in SOME of the ink colors on SOME of the discharge orders.
Some shirts print normal then go back to varying degrees on the images attached. Multiple orders exhibiting this.

The yellow/red images are from a 7 color print where it's only visible in the yellow ink. The other 6 inks are fine.

Mostly showing on Black Bella Canvas 3001. We try to mix in other test shirts while issue is happening but it's hard to determine if it's the shirt, ink or activator since the problem comes and goes.

Using clean mixing vessels, clean squeegees, nothing showing in the screens.

It's got to be the shirts right? Both of these images are on Bella 3001 Black ordered from different suppliers over a month apart.

[Admiral]

Do you have someone misting the ink in the screen? To me it looks like the mist could have been done without the ink there or wasn't fine enough.  This should be more obvious if it is happening though so it's probably not that...

[futurecolors]

This happened to us a long time ago and never really found the source of the problem. Couple things of note:

The problem usually was with a color that was flashed so if its really bad modify your print order.

We solved it before by changing pallet paper and having fresh glue.

Have not seen this problem in a while but also we do less discharge printing now.

Hopefully this helps!

[3Deep]

We've had this problem before, and I thought it was due to not enough penetration of the ink into the shirt, also ink not mixed very good on our part, and I've heard that some black shirts are really not true blacks but over dye of another colour which cause's a bad discharge.

[cclaud3]

Thanks for the replies.

No one is misting the ink. We changed to print grip from regular platen tape last week-this issue happened before and after changing over.

We mix with a gyroscopic mixer for 3 minutes then scrape the lid with a card then mix with silicone spatulas to make sure it's 100%. then add activator, sit for at least 20 mins then go. We mix 10-25 batch of ink per day.

Plenty of pressure, 70/90/70 or 62/90/62 squeegees.

Activator supplier says no one has complained of issues.
Ink supplier says no one has complained of issues.
Shirt supplier says no one has complained of issues.
Mill supplier for Bella says no one has complained of issues.
Press tech says no way for press to leak any fluid in that area. I thought maybe that could be an outside possibility.

I just sent someone to pickup replacements in next level 3600. We will run these with the same screens & batches of ink to verify if it's a garment problem or not.

[blue moon]

possibly something to do with the screen. If it was in the ink, the dots would be elongated. I've seen similar problems when we had dirty reclaim water spray on the screens and leave reclaim chemicals on it. Not sure if this helps, but I would be looking at the reclaim to start...

pierre

[ebscreen]

What mesh on the yellow? That looks like when you're shearing off fuzz from the shirt into the ink.

The green print when we've seen it I've always assumed it to be machine oil from the mill. I would wager the slightest
spray amount would interfere with the discharge reaction, and also transfer to subsequent prints, oil/water not mixing and all.

[cclaud3]

225s murakami smart mesh on the yellow. #5 of 7 ink colors.
150s murakami smart mesh on the green. #1 of 2 ink colors.

It's spots not fuzz.

Non-discharge prints aren't showing spots but maybe the inks are covering them up.

We repurchased the shirts in another brand & model. 5 of the 40 had the same issue. So must not be the brand.
ROQ support feels the press is not spraying anything.

We consolidated (3) 5 gal buckets of activator that were all less than 1 year old. Did it a month or 2 ago. It's either that or the press is spraying something. don't hear any air leaks. Thanks for the response.

[brandon]

We consolidated (3) 5 gal buckets of activator that were all less than 1 year old. Did it a month or 2 ago. It's either that or the press is spraying something. don't hear any air leaks. Thanks for the response.

Just curious is it CCI ? Not saying anything, just curious

[cclaud3]

Yes it CCI

[brandon]

Yes it CCI

Ah, okay. We had this happen towards the end of our time with that line. Great line for short runs under 1000 pieces but even over 500 pieces it gets interesting. We used it for years and years but migrated to another brand because of many small issues like this. Even with documenting everything and removing variables there were just too many inconsistencies towards the end for us. And the activator always had some issues if you didn't use it within a couple of weeks of opening. Just my opinion and experience

[cclaud3]

Ok good to know. It's the only activator we used. Worked both for Matsui and now Magna for years. Just ordered another 5 gal to troubleshoot against so hopefully this next batch proves something. Thanks.

[rusty]

Yes it CCI

Ah, okay. We had this happen towards the end of our time with that line. Great line for short runs under 1000 pieces but even over 500 pieces it gets interesting. We used it for years and years but migrated to another brand because of many small issues like this. Even with documenting everything and removing variables there were just too many inconsistencies towards the end for us. And the activator always had some issues if you didn't use it within a couple of weeks of opening. Just my opinion and experience

Who are you using now? We are pushing alot nore into discharge this spring and currently only using Matsui which has been great so far, but we are not doing multicolors that much yet.

[TCT]

We ran into the same ting a few times a while back but on IND4000 hoodies. Nothing in the screen, that is too obvious, especially for those of us that print multiple DC/WB jobs a day.  The only thing I can say that is the same as yours is we were using CCI for our pigments at that time. Not saying that is it, but that is the only thing from reading your post that we had in common....

[cclaud3]

We started with Matsui but the wet on wet wasn't working on DC or Medium solids. Skin-like build up on bottom of screen.
Tried aquarius, printed the same as Matsui.

For the last few years we have been Magna pigments and bases with CCI activator.