screen printing > Newbie

Plastisol: print in layers or cut out?

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OhNoPrinting:
thanks for all the replys. interesting to see, that there is many ways indeed to print a basic design.

I still don´t get the need for a second white? If I have an underbase white and cut a "hole" in the red shape, isn´t that working? or is an underbase-white really so different from a top-white? Like, underbase super thin layer and then thicker white on top?

If i go with the underbase, I will choke it, but because while I flash I can print the next hoodie at the same time so i don´t loose much, I will not trap the colors and will try to align them as close as I manage.

I will report back, with the result :-)

thx and have a great celebration and a happy new year.

Frog:

--- Quote from: OhNoPrinting on December 30, 2023, 02:59:02 PM ---
I still don´t get the need for a second white? If I have an underbase white and cut a "hole" in the red shape, isn´t that working? or is an underbase-white really so different from a top-white? Like, underbase super thin layer and then thicker white on top?


--- End quote ---

Yes indeed! An underbase does not need to be a solid totally opaque layer (not even always white, but that's for another discussion).
In fact, you'll probably find that you actually get better behavior from the subsequent ink colors when it's not.

blue moon:

--- Quote from: Dottonedan on December 28, 2023, 04:49:10 PM ---The accommodations for registration should be applied to your base white only.
No matter what graphic program you are using, you want to "choke" or cut away from the base.

--- End quote ---

Very, very strongly DISAGREE with this statement! Changing the underbase wil alter the look of the design. Choking will eliminate very thin lines.Try choking fine text and see whats left…

Underbase should be left alone and the top colors should be expanded to cover the underbase.



Pierre

Dottonedan:
Again, the interesting part of approaching a job. One feels "strongly" about one method while others may not agree and do things differently.
If I understand him correctly, (as it appears in black and white), He disagrees and would change the top colors to apply a thicker element (a stroke) to the top colors and not touch the base white. He states that modifying the base...would be altering the look of the design). To me, it's FOR THIS REASON, (wanting to avoid altering the appearance of the original art)... that I myself, disagree with HIM on this as a rule.
But lets remember, it really comes down to HOW ONE PRINTS that dictates how we lean towards approaching a project.


I disagree with Blue Moon. Not "strongly", but I do, and I'll clarify where the NOT strongly comes into play and partially agrees with him. I feel he spoke by shooting from the hip...and may have needed to elaborate and specify where he disagrees. It currently implies that he completely disagrees "strongly" as in with all modifications to the base and that you should only modify the top colors as apposed to what I had stated.
I assume I read that right.



This registration accommodations in separation to me, is sort of the first rule of separations. You want to modify the base only, (as much as possible). Modifying the top, (the colors) in any way, degrades the integrity of the original image so you want to avoid doing that as much as you can as a rule. BUt there can always be a GIVE AND TAKE. There are exceptions and THIN line work and SMALL type are those exceptions. Some of the art that we must separate that is provided by the customer can be out of control with small detail. If we we are creating the art ourselves within the shop, we would be avoiding designing with tiny type and very thin lines.  Blue Moons experiences comes from customer provided art so he speaks with a lot of that experience.
 

In some cases, the type or line art can be very small and thin. Too small for print in some cases and must be re-created in order to make it work cleanly. Sometimes we have to address how to use what they provided and separate very small type. In these cases, we still want to leave the most attention, the most modification to the base...and not as much on the top colors.


What I will do, is treat the small type (separately) from what I would do with the rest of the larger art of the same color. On small type and thin lines, I will split the difference on my choke (on the small type). Instead of a .5 (from center line out), I will do .25 choke on the base (thin type) and add .25 thickness to the top color thin element. This modification to the cop color is minute. Adding .5 thickness to the top color of (small type) is too much modification IMO and should be avoided. (The above is for most people when separating their own work when in vector).




It's true that when you do have extremely small type, you then want to approach that part differently. But ONLY that part. In other words, don't apply the same technique to fatten a color across the board. Only for the small type.

For me, THIS subject of choking small type for registration is the epitome of why I use 600ppi resolution for my photoshop files. I choke 2-3 pixels IN and typically, I for the most part, I do not add to the outside. The 600ppi gives me enough CLEAN choke on small type (to allow for providing a good usable underbase that is choked, and holding the integrity of a very good under base for that small type in Time Roman and Helvetica type.  This is pertaining to about 8 or 10 pt type.  At the point I'm working with 6 pt type, (smallest legal type) and should be ridiculous for anyone to be using on apparel...I may add 1 pixel to the outside, and choke 2 pixels to the inside.  This is using LIVE type with anti-aliasing turned off to that it is SOLID with no blurred edges on the type if typing out yourself. If provided, then you are FUBAR with this small type with blurred edges.  I would then adjust levels or curves to make the type solid with no fuzzy edges and let it ride.

I'll say that I respect the need for others to do it differently and disagree with me. I may not agree, but I will respect your reasons for why.
I do know tho, that what I do, the way I do it, works for about 1500 jobs per year for me and my full time job and the wide variety of shops for my freelance customers. Both licensed/retail and custom work. I think that weighs heavily as a strong justification for continuing with the methods I do, but I do not claim that everyone should do it my way.

inkman996:
Not sure why its such a hot topic. I honestly just do it old school, I sep everything  manually so I can treat every part separately. I almost always just choke the white base but when there is small lines I will instead increase the top color. These details are so small to start with it will not effect the over all art work in any discernible way.

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