NEW Laser To Screen Coming Soon

[1964GN]

There is finally a NEW LTS unit coming and we may be getting one of the first to beta in the US.
What I have learned so far...

• Works with any emulsion. There is no need for the factory to calibrate it for you.
• 1 up... 23x31 or 25x36
• Resolution up to around 5000 dpi is possible (some of there high end bank note machine go up to 10,000 to 12000 dpi)
• User upgradable by simply adding more banks of laser diodes. Base unit would be around 2-ish minutes per screen with the ability do add laser banks and reduce that down to around 30-ish sec.
• Adding additional laser banks takes about 3-4 minutes
• Utilizes 1 bit tiff and comes with the RIP
• Comes with a built in step test for easy user calibration for different mesh counts and emulsion, just like you do now when you switch emulsion, exposure unit, etc. No tech or factory calibration needed.
• When performing a step test you are adjusting the power vs time like you do with more traditional exposure units
• Laser diode expected life span of 20,000 hours
• The lasers in this unit do not move. The laser banks are static and the light is sent via fiber optic to a single lens.
• The single lens travels on a Maglev rail when exposing the screen. There are virtually zero maintenance points on this system.
• The laser travels at 4.5 meters per second and fires at 1 million times per second.
• Pre reg systems for all major brands are available. MHM pin, M&R Tri-lock, ROQ, etc.
• This unit is also capable of plate making by adding plate making lasers. You can switch between plate making and screen making with a push of a button
• Manufactured by the world leader in laser CTS and CTP (computer to plate), Luscher Technologies in Switzerland.

I don't have exact pricing but I expect it to be similar to the Saati unit from the numbers I've heard thrown around, but the price really depends on how many lasers you get so I expect with less lasers it would be cheaper than the Saati for most 1-3 auto shops. Adding a laser bank is expected to be around 20k give or take. As your screen production requirements grow you don't necessarily need to add another CTS to keep up. Add more banks and cut screen making time in half.
With our Douthitt are are around a 2 to 2.5 minutes to image a full size print (printing unidirectional, plus exposure time). We do 20-30 screens per day currently and don't have a need for a 30 sec exposure. A 2 minute total exposure time would speed things up a bit so we can opt to go with less lasers, which brings the price down.
I still have a lot of questions but based on the people I have talked to that are familiar with Luscher, and the machines that they make, I suspect this thing is the real deal.
This new Chippy Tee podcast episode has a good discussion on the basics https://youtu.be/wrkmBQ0472w

[Maxie]

I listened to the podcast, sounds good but I'd like to know the cost, can't  get answers on that yet.
I think it's overkill for small shops, if you are doing 30 screens a day how can you justify the expense?
What dpi can you hold on your screens?     Also what dpi can you actually print?
Who needs 5000dpi?      It's like putting a jet motor on a bicycle.
I get great results from my Douthitt, as far as I see it the only real justification for a Lazer is financial, do you produce enough screens a day to make saving time and wax worth while.
For most of us it doesn't make economic sense.

[1964GN]

Depending on how many laser banks you get the price range is expected to be 80k-140k. If you do the math you may find that 80k is not that much more than a Douthitt (for example) over a 5-6 year period. Our Douthitt is 3 1/2 years old and it's way over due for a new print head. The print head life is about 2-3 years and replacement cost is $4600.

A new Douthitt is about 55k and a decent exposure unit is 10-15k. 2 print heads in 5-6 years is $9200. Add the cost of wax over that period and you are easily over 80K. We also have a 5k metal halide exposure unit and replace the bulb every 2 - 2 1/2 years. I forget what the bulb costs but they are not cheap.

So, if you look at the long term, the laser is less expense to own and maintain over time. Extend that math out to 10-15 years. We don't buy based on the "get in" price. We buy based on current and projected future needs.

A machine like this would future proof our screen making.

[Rockers]

Depending on how many laser banks you get the price range is expected to be 80k-140k. If you do the math you may find that 80k is not that much more than a Douthitt (for example) over a 5-6 year period. Our Douthitt is 3 1/2 years old and it's way over due for a new print head. The print head life is about 2-3 years and replacement cost is $4600.

A new Douthitt is about 55k and a decent exposure unit is 10-15k. 2 print heads in 5-6 years is $9200. Add the cost of wax over that period and you are easily over 80K. We also have a 5k metal halide exposure unit and replace the bulb every 2 - 2 1/2 years. I forget what the bulb costs but they are not cheap.

So, if you look at the long term, the laser is less expense to own and maintain over time. Extend that math out to 10-15 years. We don't buy based on the "get in" price. We buy based on current and projected future needs.

A machine like this would future proof our screen making.

And the math will look even better if you get more busy and have even more screens to make. Did they give you some sort of a special deal for testing their unit?

[1964GN]

Nothing has been finalized for beta testing. We don't expect any special pricing and if doesn't worked as advertised they would take it back (which I doubt would happen). Again, being a beta tester for the unit is still a bit up in the air.

[1964GN]

Update:

It's been over 1 year and a new Screen! Cube has been shipped and install is scheduled for the week of 9/23

This will be the first one in the US, and the first one to be tested/used in an actual textile production facility.

While laser screen making is defiantly in our thoughts we had no intention of upgrading this year. We have been asked, as a favor to SPSI, MHM and Luscher, to put this through it's paces to determine if this unit is can do what they say it can. Remember, this unit has been in production for over 15 years but in the bank note printing environment. The resolution it's capable of is crazy, but this is printing t shirts through 150-305 mesh, not 2300 (guessing) for printing currency.

The unit coming has the MHM clamping system and 128 laser bank (it's max) with "claims" of a 1 minute exposure time. Luscher has full confidence but we are skeptical.

While the max laser bank unit cost nearly $150k it is available in a variety of numbers of laser, at a considerably lower cost. We are told we'll be able to test the varying levels of lasers. after we get a solid feel for what it can do we'll be testing fewer lasers. Time to expose vs price

If we love the unit we have the option to purchase it a greatly reduced price. If we don't they take it back no questions asked, at zero cost us other than a little electrical and air work we have to do.

I'll post 100% unbiased opinions and facts on what this unit capable of, and what it's not. If we love it we'll tell you, if we hate it we'll tell you.

[Dottonedan]

Nothing against SAATI laser, but this sounds like a lot of benefits in comparison.  For example, to get the higher resolutions to hold a 3% dot in a 85-100lpi off of the SAATI, you have to pay a higher price for the better RIP.  (or so I was told) early one by a SAATI rep.


The one thing I find as a slight negative depending on your type of shop is that a shop that does a lot of pockets or any kind of small print, the laser still has to fully pass over the same total distance across the screen to expose the emulsion. So a pocket print takes as long as a full sized print.   On an I-Image, you crop the template up to the bottom of the pocket print and that's where the print head stops. Saves a lot of (on machine) time.  At one of the shops I worked at, (JnJ) about 90% of our designs had pocket prints so that's almost double the screen making time (for pocket prints) in a laser.

Is there a way to tell the laser machine to only go down so far on the screen, so that it doesn't need to pass over the entire screen size?

[CBCB]

Is there a way to tell the laser machine to only go down so far on the screen, so that it doesn't need to pass over the entire screen size?

That would take a lotttttt of blockout tape.

[tonypep]

You got that right! Of course, the whole screen needs to be exposed by the laser. BTW not to take away from OP but our SAATI is approaching two ys old with zero issues. We love it.

[Dottonedan]

And there you are. Always waiting to only contribute a snarky comment.


These are computer programed. Imagine someone coming up with the idea to program the machine to have a FULL Screen and HALF screen option.  Imagine on these pocket & neck tag prints, having only half of the screen coated and saved for pocket prints and neck tags coating half way up. It's not rocket science. It would be more efficient to have a portion of  screens coated one side of that screen on those...therefore, no need to tape off all of that remaining uncoated side. Then hit the HALF imaging button so that the lasers don't travel that entire distance.  Now, you use less emulsion and (to my point), using only half of the laser time.


We could be doing half coating now for pockets using wet and wax machines but it's always just been easier and not that costly to coat the whole screen and waste that side but always having all screen ready for either type of print. But now (with laser) and adding wasted imaging time also, taking twice the amount of time to image an area that doesn't get printed, it seems more feasible to now coat half screens.  Not for every shop, but for those that know their business is doing a lot of pockets and neck tags. Again, some shops are set up to have a pocket print on most all of their designs.  A half screen button would work and get maybe 30% more time efficient out of those laser machines.  30% more screen efficiency per day means a lot for big shops.


If the machine can image another job to be imaged on the opposite end f the screen for dual placement of small prints and pocket prints...(one image on each side) then my comment is a moot point.

I've only separated jobs that were getting laser imaged. Never been in a shop using a laser before so I don't know how each job can be modified for imaging.

[Dottonedan]

Tony,

Can you image two sides with a different job on each end to make use of the whole imaging time?

[tonypep]

Absolutely. Shops that print pockets constantly (on a dedicated press sometimes), will gang up multiple pockets and left chests, etc. Conversely, those who do not often gang them up to the back prints, flip the screen and triloc, and Bobs your uncle!

[1964GN]

I am told you can set the distance it images, so if you are ganging images it will stop at the point you set, flip the screen and image the next one, with an exposed overlap between the 2. I was also told the saati has the same ability. I'm told you can set up multiple presets for a variety image sizes. Say, one for a 12" tall back and left chest, one for 8" tall back and a left chest, etc. How that works in the real world I have no idea.

Again, we did not ask to be a tester for this machine, we were asked to test it.

[Evo]

Absolutely. Shops that print pockets constantly (on a dedicated press sometimes), will gang up multiple pockets and left chests, etc. Conversely, those who do not often gang them up to the back prints, flip the screen and triloc, and Bobs your uncle!

Exactly...

To add to this, I have an image in my head of an adapter frame with multiple Rapid Tag screens ganged together, with each screen having images ganged together for multiple tag sizes/locations. Imaging and exposing an entire set for multiple styles and size runs all in one shot.

I would hope the RIP could have recipes saved for such scenarios.

[Admiral]

Absolutely. Shops that print pockets constantly (on a dedicated press sometimes), will gang up multiple pockets and left chests, etc. Conversely, those who do not often gang them up to the back prints, flip the screen and triloc, and Bobs your uncle!

We have a CTS - we Tri-Loc each side for doubled up prints.  This would negate that.  Wouldn't that be a problem with the Tri-Loc then with an laser imaging system?