Do you have an ink mixing system?

[Prosperi-Tees]

So I got a complete QCM mixing system for free from a printer going out of business. I have only mixed a couple colors from it and can definitely see where an ink mixer comes in handy. I love the way the ink prints but what I dont like are the pigments which from what I understand can be used as is. The pigments are like overly thick mollasses and hard to measure out easily. What do you guys have as far as a mixing system?

[Screened Gear]

So I got a complete QCM mixing system for free from a printer going out of business. I have only mixed a couple colors from it and can definitely see where an ink mixer comes in handy. I love the way the ink prints but what I dont like are the pigments which from what I understand can be used as is. The pigments are like overly thick mollasses and hard to measure out easily. What do you guys have as far as a mixing system?

I have the Union Mixopake System. It is white ink base with about 9 or so other colors. They are thick and not really for printing straight (you could). I always line the container with some softhand base to keep the inks from sticking to the side, then add the white with a goop scoop. Then I use 2 business cards to add the colored inks. You scoop up ink on one business card then use another business card to drop ink into the center of the bucket with the white. It works really good and you can be very accurate. I almost always make up a quarter of a quart (about 300 grams) then I add soft hand base to make it a good half quart. (Mixopake inks are just like Maxopake inks so you can add up to 50% soft hand base to make softhand inks)

Get a good scale.

If the color comes out wrong you will have to figure out how to modify it. Here is a few hints.

First make sure you scrape your mixing stick of all the ink on it and mix everything in as well as you can (a business card works good for this). You sometimes only use a gram of a color and if you don’t do this half of that gram can be stuck on the mixing stick and not worked into the ink.

If the color is lighter then you wanted don’t just add black. Add just a little more of the colors that are in the formula in the same percentages as the formula. If you add black the color will sometimes come out muddy.

If it comes out too dark add more white (it’s in the formula so it will not affect the color like black does.)

If it’s too much one of the colors in the formula then add more of the others. (too red then add a little of the cool color in the formula (blue.)

Hope this helps.

Jon

[Prosperi-Tees]

Yeah that helps and I use the business card as well. Good tip about the softhand base because I just mixed a qt of pantone red and the bottom of the container I could not get all the white off of although I dont think the QCM will need the softhand as its pretty soft as is, and from what I understand the Mixopake system can be printed direct on darks and the QCM cannot. Before I was given the QCM ink I was considering getting the Mixopake system and still might when the QCM runs out because I would like to be able to do direct printing on darks.

[Screened Gear]

Yeah that helps and I use the business card as well. Good tip about the softhand base because I just mixed a qt of pantone red and the bottom of the container I could not get all the white off of although I dont think the QCM will need the softhand as its pretty soft as is, and from what I understand the Mixopake system can be printed direct on darks and the QCM cannot. Before I was given the QCM ink I was considering getting the Mixopake system and still might when the QCM runs out because I would like to be able to do direct printing on darks.

I learned that softhand base trick on here. Thanks who ever that was. You can print mixo on darks print flash print. I still think a white underbase makes a better print.

[ZooCity]

QMX was originally designed to be like Mixopake in that it creates opaque PMS inks for printing without an underbase.  My original QMX set had the regular formulas and than alternates for printing on a white base.  Back then they had XOLB, an opaque set of ready colors and a WOW series for, you guessed it, WOW printing which meant underbases on darks.  At some point I think they sort of merged the WOW base into the QMX system.  I didn't notice a major change in opacity printing directly on darks but everything was a little smoother printing.  After this change they offered "opaque" clear for example that could be subbed for WOW Clear base in mixes, throwing the color of a touch but increasing opacity, presumably by giving the ink some more body. 

It's an excellent system and the only one {that I'm aware of} that gives you indication of opacity of various colors.  You learn this intuitively over time but it's nice to have for reference and setting guidelines.  I enjoyed the freedom to mix my own colors by eye with the QMX setup and it's been very hard to break that habit.  It's also just plain good ink.  Shame that they couldn't seem to produce it consistently but perhaps that's a thing of the past now that Rutland owns the line.  Towards the end, I had major problems with a few QCM batches so keep an eye on what you have, particularly reds from a certain era and some of the particle /metallic inks.   Test first. 

We now use Wilflex Epic PCs which are highly concentrated pigments, uncurable on their own, that can be mixed into any base you can imagine, typically from 12-18%.    Instead of gallons of base colors we now have little quarts and a gallon of white PC.   The bucket of white weighs what feels like 10x more than a bucket of regular white ink, all the pigment bases are just really loaded.  Hence the name pigment concentrates I suppose.  It lords over RFU ink mixing systems in that it you can mix up a batch of low-cure temp, dye-blocking poly/athletic ink and a batch of soft hand for cotton Ts with the same system and, as mentioned, you don't need much for pigment inventory.  You also are granted ultimate control of pigment loading with this type of system and with it the opportunity to eff it all up and mix and print ink that looks great but won't crock or cure properly in the end.  I like this a lot and can deal with the added responsibility, but still miss mixing by eye from time to time.

Good scale is worth every penny.  In reality, if you mix quarts and gallons, you need two scales- one that can read hundreths of a gram for quarts and on that only goes to tenths but has a higher overall capacity for gallons.  Having hundreths read out is less of an issue with RFU systems like the QMX one you have but still an issue.   Here's a tip- Sartorious {and others I'm sure} make excellent scales and they happen to be used by a lot of auto-body shop painters.  I found one model for a fraction of it's new price on ebay that a painter was selling since he got a new one with his recent mixing kit purchase.  It's not uncommon for employees and owners of various trade-based shops to want an excuse to get a new toy and you could even offer to buy their used scale from them or, better yet, print some Ts in trade.  This actually works out gangbusters with things like bicycle repair tools, may or may not fly with scales but it's worth a try if you don't find one on classifieds.   I used a sort of low-ender called the X-res for quite a few years and it actually performed admirably for the price/grade of tool that it was. 

[ZooCity]

I learned that softhand base trick on here. Thanks who ever that was. You can print mixo on darks print flash print. I still think a white underbase makes a better print.

I believe you can thank Frog for that 'un.  A most excellent trick spreading the base ink around the container prior to adding pigment.  And, actually, a requirement with PCs it turns out. 

[brandon]

So I got a complete QCM mixing system for free from a printer going out of business. I have only mixed a couple colors from it and can definitely see where an ink mixer comes in handy. I love the way the ink prints but what I dont like are the pigments which from what I understand can be used as is. The pigments are like overly thick mollasses and hard to measure out easily. What do you guys have as far as a mixing system?

Hey hey, please call me on Monday or any day next week. We only use QCM for plastisol since day one about 5 years ago. The reason at the time was they were way ahead with the lack of phthalates, voc's, metals, and a ton of other crap. From what I know (which is not a lot!) they were ahead because of their location - the Pacific NW. Pretty green up here. And we are lucky because they used to be here. The ink was and is nice - creamy, rolled, and popped. And they offered and still offer low bleeds which are bright, WOW's or wet on wets (some printers say never buy but from our limited experience I disagree), specialty inks, and wonderful bases meant for different prints. Granted, things have changed since the company takeover but we still buy 5 gallon buckets every week of everything. In my opinion their plastisol pantone mixing system is awesome. Don't even get me started on it. Is it perfect? Of course not. But way better than others in my opinion. I am not trying to start any ink war, just my experience with it.
They have a wow base, a "softee base," a halftone base, and a wow white base. Here are the differences. Please trust me on this as we use it every day for our plastisols without fail. And please any other shop step in and offer their advice! But here goes...

1. WOW, or "wet on wet" base. Yes, meant for mixing into your inks on wow jobs. Depending on your mesh count, the tightness of your screen, and the base required in the QMX mixing series. We run some pretty high mesh up to 355's though. But even down to 156's. Good pantone mixing base.

2. Softee base. Honestly we hardly touch it any more. Good for basing down large plastisol prints on the manual or auto, but who wants to wear a sheet of that? Even with one pass I am biased. Sorry, water base or discharge all the way. I am a snob!

3. Halftone base. This is awesome, I have turned this on to other printers running other inks and they love it. Meant for wow prints, 230 mesh or higher. We have done multiple, multiple jobs 8 or 9 colors wow on darks with no flashing and perfect results. Repeat several months later same results. Repeat again same results. Awesome base. However, QCM will now tell you this base is the same as the WOW base. Not true. We have several gallons of this base and I am looking for a replacement. Not happy!

4. WOW white base. Meant for mixing in the QMX mixing series. You cannot use another white - will mess everything up. To use QCM's mixing system you have to use their inks and the correct ones. I am pretty sure it is the same for all ink manufacturers. While not perfect in my opinion of all the plastisol mixing systems QCM's is the best. And it is actually called QMX. But I will be the first to complain about their whites 158/159, the inconsistency issue, the company buy out, and the lack of product. But that is another thread. I really hope QCM pulls it together as our company loves the ink and also the support we used to get (Thank you Colin a zillion times! Here that QCM!) but sooner or later if we cannot get the amounts we need we will be forced to go somewhere else.

Alright, I am done. If your at the show tomorrow message me and we can chat or give me a call next week. I actually have to head out now! Flight to catch!

[tpitman]

I've got the mixopake system also. Some colors are like putty, some not.
I use a lot of PMS 363 green and for some reason it mixes up pretty thin, but covers really well. Comes out bright as hell over a minimum underbase.

As for mixing, I have a scrap of a styrene plastic sheet that I place on my scale, zero it out, then load the various pigments according to the formula. Thin glass would work as well. Take it off the scale, place it on your bench and work the ink on the sheet with a putty knife until it's all thoroughly mixed, then put it in the tub. Eliminates any stray blobs of unmixed color. This is how I've always seen it done in offset print shops.

[Zelko-4-EVA]

we use Wilflex/Polyone PC system -   the only thing i dont like is that with some PC colors, the pigment settles to the bottom of the bucket on some of the PCs.   if the pigment bucket isnt stirred before use, your pantone color will be off.    note: the pigment dosent settle out on all the colors, but

when a bucket of new bucket of PC is opened, stir until mostly mixed, then pour into the old bucket of PC.  now you can get the chalky pigment off the bottom of the new bucket.  pour some of the PC (that was poured into the old bucket) back into the new bucket and mix in the chalky pigment.   then mix in the rest of the PC.  when the new bucket of PC is completely mixed together,  pour about a quart into the old bucket and store the new bucket.   it sounds complicated (and i dont know if i described correctly) but it insures that in a rush, you wont have to stir a full gallon of PC or worry about chunks of super concentrated pigment messing with your pantone color.   if any pigment has settled to the bottom of your bucket, a quart is easier to stir in a rush than a full gallon.    if only working with a quart of PC, it lessens the chance of contaminating a whole bucket of PC. 

also - put some base or clear on your mixing spatula - it will keep the unmixed colors from sticking (like it was said about lining the bucket with base or clear) and will make cleaning the spatula easier.

disclaimer:  we use gallon buckets of PC, 5g of the  PC extra white, 30s of the base and have about 1000 buckets of pantone colors on the shelf. 

[Fluid]

We used both the Rutland MX mixing system as well as the Wilflex PC mixing system and both were great.  Zelko I agree with the pigments yet the saturation of color from the PC system is intense.

Mix some of the royal blue pigment with gold metallic shimmer ink (see what you get)  Looks like the VW beetle green metallic color.

You can do some cool stuff with pigments and specialty inks, just have to do a little R&D.

[blue moon]

So I got a complete QCM mixing system for free from a printer going out of business. I have only mixed a couple colors from it and can definitely see where an ink mixer comes in handy. I love the way the ink prints but what I dont like are the pigments which from what I understand can be used as is. The pigments are like overly thick mollasses and hard to measure out easily. What do you guys have as far as a mixing system?

something to think about . . .

once you commit to an ink system, it is hard to switch. While you can get close to the colors you created before, I doubt you'll be able to achieve a perfect match. This means that all the orders you printed previously will now look a little bit different when reordered. The discrepancy will probably not be big enough to cause problems unless you have pretty demanding customers, but it is something to be aware of. . .

My point being, try several if you can, as once you know what you like, you'll probably be stuck with it for a while.

pierre

[ZooCity]

Pierre is absolutely right.  I lost some cash after we switched due to color issues.  This can get out of control if your staff is not of a certain skill level.

[tonypep]

If you're shopping, consider the Wilflex Epic MX system. It uses concentrated curable mixing colors and is more forgiving with regards to weight ratios.

[ZooCity]

If you're shopping, consider the Wilflex Epic MX system. It uses concentrated curable mixing colors and is more forgiving with regards to weight ratios.

For what it's worth, you could build a set of MX style bases out of the PC system by adding a set % of the straight base to each PC and separating those from the rest of the set so they aren't used with non-compatible specialty bases.  Little bit of work but you have one unified in-house mixing system for practically everything this way and you're taking some of the weight problem and risk out of the equation.  You'd have a hard time using the IMS with that setup though. 

I do miss those curable bases as I mentioned.

[Chadwick]

Always make sure you stir your pigments.
Before any f*cking thing else, ok?

I made the new kid mix 7 colors today.
( he's new. give him a break. )
Nah. ( I'm a prick )
He was hating life. ( perfect )
Thing is, he only messed up once, cause he had to add .01 of black pigment
and learned a valuable life-lesson. Black pigment is not to be fooled with.
He totally fubard that one.
Big f*ckin' deal.
( the poor kid is scarred for life )
( Aced the others., btw. big smiles from me )
He learned a valuable lesson.
Important fact:  he didn't f*ck up the other 6 that his green hide mixed.

So here's to the new guy's.