General discussion about hiring an artist working from home. Your thoughts?

[Dottonedan]

So many of you might have seen that I have posted looking for a position as a separator working from home but full time.
One other requirement is to have benefits. So that right there, I release removes a lot of potential customers.

I’ve gotten a couple good leads for full time jobs that I have to be patient and wait on, and I’ve had a few interested in hiring me part time.  I could do that (with two shops) splitting the day 4/4  and be ok with that as long as one of them had benefits. The key here (for part time) is that the pay would be affordable for more shops (working part time).  Most can afford to pay an artist half of what I’m making now and that would be less than they would normally pay someone at full time...and the other shop paying the other half. But yea, I get it. I realize at that same pay, they only get me for 20 hrs a wk.  But thats getting a top separator/artist that can create and prepare and file (not to mention trouble shoot any issue son press...or even improve on their floor operations from screen room to even training printers how to improve prints.

So I see it as extremely beneficial and I would think that I’d be getting many more interested.  I haven’t presented it this way (two part time jobs) but some have asked if I’d be interested and that’s a back burner at the moment. I would think that would look attractive.  A shop could gang all of their tougher jobs leaving them for me to handle while their other staff artist deal with the more basic jobs.

Meanwhile, I have a few artist friends (two that are currently working for other shops remotely) like I want to do and they are saying they love it and is working out very well for them and the shop and they have benefits. So I know it’s doable and beneficial.

So I wanted to ask, what do you think would be any negatives or would hold someone back from you hiring someone working off site?

I can see a negative as being (just not there), not present to address issues directly with a quick resolve as fast as possible...and relying more on face time video’s, email and phone calls. But the benefits I think outweigh that.

Thoughts?  Maybe I’m not seeing something.


Thanks
Dan

[GraphicDisorder]

Ill post this here too, even though I posted it on one of the forums you made this post on.

You asked for feedback so ill give it. We have used you for seps with good results/no objection.

I would stop short of saying never, but it would be extremely unlikely for me to hire someone full time offsite to do anything. Art/Seps/etc. If I am hiring a full time person, especially for what I am sure you would cost. I would want you at my disposal here at the shop. Maybe you have a light day, great there is a 100 other things needing done here.

The truth of work from home is in general....its a larger benefit for the employee, than the employer. There are exceptions and in some businesses nobody cares. I don't see a benefit to someone being offsite other than not having to provide a office/space...and that isn't that big a deal.

Again has nothing to do with you or your result. We've used you, good results.

[tonypep]

When I was running JSR Merchandising we had two full time, off site artists/separators with the lead person onsite. Since its the music and entertainment biz much of the source art provided by the bands or record labels. Often it was reproducing CD covers or tour photos. All these guys have decades of experience with this type of work and are the absolute best at it. They were and are occasionally sent to the printshop to get a feel for the "footprint" of the printshop, which gives them a better feel for expected dot gain, etc. The onsite artist was/is very good at on press adjustments (rarely necessary) and buffering fingerpointing. Exception? You bet.
Also following this model with another company which brings the art/sep people in for a week for line development twice a year.
So its rare but doable. Sometimes a good fit is hard to come by but best of luck and proceed with caution.
TP

[3Deep]

I shouldn't be in this conversation, but if we were a bigger company with staff I'd have all my people at the shop, now with that said I could deal with offsite work maybe 1 or possible two days a week during slow months.  I'm old fashion and kind of all hands on deck, so if I have questions your right there for me or whomever in the shop needs this person for a tough job, with that I would lean more to using a good freelance artist/separator, but hey good luck Dan you have a ton of value for any shop.

[Dottonedan]

I see and agree with the negatives being mentioned.  All true.


Having said that, I do know that there ARE shops that we all don’t see in the groups and forums (some are here and there) but we don’t see much of those that are in management. Lately, I’ve come across 3 or 4 larger potential shops but I have to hit them when they need a person. Not hiring at the moment.


Take for example JNJ where I used to work at.  They had enough work every day, all wk and year to keep 1 separator tied up at the computer doing seps. 15, 20 25 seps per day. Their downfall for me was that they (the two owners) didn’t pay well nor did the owners have any knowledge of the industry and what different spots were worth or what a separator was worth. They saw it as just another labor spot. Decent benefits tho. If I had to go out into the shop for anything, it put me a little behind. Now, I’ll say that their art files were set up well for me to just go in and do my work and I could get 2-4 jobs done in an hr.   This is the type of shop where I would benefit the most. And it’s a larger shop. 3-4 auto minimum maybe.


Now, could I work for them again?  Sure. It’s been talked about. But they do now have someone full time in house doing seps all day. I do some freelance for them now and then when overloaded, but not every day or month to where they can add me on full time.


I have some offers. One local, offering close to the same pay I’m getting now, but it’s an hr drive and they don’t want to have me work remote. So that one is like a last resort only because of the driving.  I have options. I could go full time freelance and with hard work, could equal my current pay but I like consistency and dependability. That’s why I’ve always also carried a full time job. I could take several job offers (requiring me to move). I could go back to M&R if I wanted to move to Chicago ..but not interested in moving. We are settled here. I may have to settle for whatever I can to make what’s needed. Might work tow part time jobs (and freelance) or something. Ya never know till ya know.

[GraphicDisorder]

Put yourself in any shops shoes really.

Other than them not having to put you in a office/space...name one advantage for them for you to be offsite?

[Dottonedan]

I can’t be a good fit for all shops. So really, if you (your shop) doesn't see the benefit my working for your shop, then obviously, I’m not a fit...and you wouldn’t contact me.  But there are those who would.  I get it. I get what you’re saying for sure. Especially with small and medium sized shops. So it’s not a fit for you and you don’t see any benefit worth doing it. Valid and noted.


I’ll give you 4 reasons that I can think of that benefit the shop.


1 Advantage is not having to relocate a family, covering expenses, assisting with temporary housing etc.


2, Opens the door to a wider pool of candidates. If they can stay home, they can apply anywhere and both of you have less risk.  If your shop (had to have) another high end artist/color separator, and the job market (as it’s getting now) puts those skills at a higher cost, for someone to take the risk of quitting their job and going to a NEW job and uprooting their family...and your job may or may not work out for them.


3, A pay range can be “slightly less” than had you had to have that person move to your town and pay them a slightly higher rate working on site as there is a convenience factor. It gives you the opportunity to get a little more skill without having to move someone and pay a higher rate.


4, Travel time.  Never a reason to be late. Can’t say “the car broke down, ran out of gas,


5, (I forgot SICK TIME).  It’s much harder to call off work and claim being sick when you’re working from home. It’s easy to get up and run to the bathroom when you have the shits.



For the artist, that’s another savings. No travel. 20 min or an hour more a day in time and gas expenses. 



This is already going on. It’s not like it’s (never going to be a good option).
There are shops that DO currently only use artist that are working from home full time. I’m sure that they have one person printing films or sending files to a CST and handling things on the spot, but it’s true that this is a growing trend especially among higher skilled talent and had been recognized even more so (during covid).  I’ve spoken to several.  One prints all of their own product and their main customer is Wal-Mart. 20 or more autos. Another shop that has a full staff of artist working from home is a mega shop. 40+ auto’s in MI. So bigger shops (see the value).  How they handle that internally (monitor the work time of the artist from home) I’m not sure. I’ve been told of some programs where everyone is logged in, remote with camera and can community between each other using a group chatter example. (time invested per job is logged).
 So that have ways of being sure you’re not at home sleeping on the job.

[Homer]

clearly this isn't the path for small mom and pop shops, this is engineered for the larger "big boys" of print shops. Totally understandable. but. what do you do if a print needs adjustments? we all know pictures never do it justice. for us, the communication or lack of would be the number one killer of this concept. Second would be the artist missing out on our epic Christmas parties and other in shop shenanigans...

[T Shirt Farmer]

Expectational talent that delivers exceptional value never have to look for work, work finds them.


Make your offerings exceptional and problem solved.

[GraphicDisorder]

I can’t be a good fit for all shops. So really, if you (your shop) doesn't see the benefit my working for your shop, then obviously, I’m not a fit...and you wouldn’t contact me.  But there are those who would.  I get it. I get what you’re saying for sure. Especially with small and medium sized shops. So it’s not a fit for you and you don’t see any benefit worth doing it. Valid and noted.


I’ll give you 4 reasons that I can think of that benefit the shop.


1 Advantage is not having to relocate a family, covering expenses, assisting with temporary housing etc.


2, Opens the door to a wider pool of candidates. If they can stay home, they can apply anywhere and both of you have less risk.  If your shop (had to have) another high end artist/color separator, and the job market (as it’s getting now) puts those skills at a higher cost, for someone to take the risk of quitting their job and going to a NEW job and uprooting their family...and your job may or may not work out for them.


3, A pay range can be “slightly less” than had you had to have that person move to your town and pay them a slightly higher rate working on site as there is a convenience factor. It gives you the opportunity to get a little more skill without having to move someone and pay a higher rate.


4, Travel time.  Never a reason to be late. Can’t say “the car broke down, ran out of gas,


5, (I forgot SICK TIME).  It’s much harder to call off work and claim being sick when you’re working from home. It’s easy to get up and run to the bathroom when you have the shits.



For the artist, that’s another savings. No travel. 20 min or an hour more a day in time and gas expenses. 



This is already going on. It’s not like it’s (never going to be a good option).
There are shops that DO currently only use artist that are working from home full time. I’m sure that they have one person printing films or sending files to a CST and handling things on the spot, but it’s true that this is a growing trend especially among higher skilled talent and had been recognized even more so (during covid).  I’ve spoken to several.  One prints all of their own product and their main customer is Wal-Mart. 20 or more autos. Another shop that has a full staff of artist working from home is a mega shop. 40+ auto’s in MI. So bigger shops (see the value).  How they handle that internally (monitor the work time of the artist from home) I’m not sure. I’ve been told of some programs where everyone is logged in, remote with camera and can community between each other using a group chatter example. (time invested per job is logged).
 So that have ways of being sure you’re not at home sleeping on the job.

I am probably your literal target shop more than you think, which is why this conversation interests me. We don't print 1-2-3-4 color BS art work. It really just doesn't happen. Almost every job, literally is a high end sep/high color count. We are nearing the stage were we will either hire another artist to help with seps or hire someone to only do seps. You might be taking this a bit personal but it's just my perspective of it and its not pointed at you specifically only the idea of this in general. Ironically right now if we moved to another artist/person to do seps, we dont have space for them. So id have to build that. So id almost be forced to consider something like this if it had to happen now. So I am participating in this convo because maybe I am wrong.

1. I don't think the general screen print shop or even many larger shops would actually pay to relocate someone for seps. There are exceptions I am certain. Not saying it can't/don't happen. Saying its not normal. Normal in this industry is low pay and shitty enviroment. Let's be honest. 
2. This is a positive, I agree. But I think this one sort of takes care of it self and you are illustrating this for us. The shop your at now wont pay enough sounds like, so your looking for another shop. People in your profession will be doing the same. They will have to be willing to look anywhere for the right job or change careers. 
3. I can't say this is accurate, your asking for more money than you are getting at the shop your at now and you want it being remote, unless I am misunderstanding?
4. This is true, but being late driving or not shouldn't be happening. So don't think this applies like your applying it.
5. I could see this being somewhat true. But im guessing in general if your sick, your sick and wouldn't be doing work.

I will say this much. I have a few friends who work remotely with their jobs. Every single one of them are taking more than they are giving as far as time goes. Good people too, do great work. But this is just a reality of it. For some shops that will be fine. Hell even in my shop I don't get after people as long as we are doing what we should be as far as time lines. Even heard some argue they may work better/faster at home. I have seen some studies saying that's true and some saying its false. It's interesting. Yes there are programs that monitor your mouse movement/keyboard inputs/even some that will take your picture now and then to make sure your working.

IMO no on the fly phone/camera/screen shot/messaging is going to be as accurate as you standing there holding the print.

All that said I do think you'll find something.

[Dottonedan]

Expectational talent that delivers exceptional value never have to look for work, work finds them.


Make your offerings exceptional and problem solved.

Always has been that way on a freelance level.  But for employment, you have to go find shops that have a need.

[Dottonedan]

I am probably your literal target shop more than you think, which is why this conversation interests me. We don't print 1-2-3-4 color BS art work. It really just doesn't happen. Almost every job, literally is a high end sep/high color count. We are nearing the stage were we will either hire another artist to help with seps or hire someone to only do seps. You might be taking this a bit personal but it's just my perspective of it and its not pointed at you specifically only the idea of this in general. Ironically right now if we moved to another artist/person to do seps, we dont have space for them. So id have to build that. So id almost be forced to consider something like this if it had to happen now. So I am participating in this convo because maybe I am wrong.

1. I don't think the general screen print shop or even many larger shops would actually pay to relocate someone for seps. There are exceptions I am certain. Not saying it can't/don't happen. Saying its not normal. Normal in this industry is low pay and shitty enviroment. Let's be honest. 
2. This is a positive, I agree. But I think this one sort of takes care of it self and you are illustrating this for us. The shop your at now wont pay enough sounds like, so your looking for another shop. People in your profession will be doing the same. They will have to be willing to look anywhere for the right job or change careers. 
3. I can't say this is accurate, your asking for more money than you are getting at the shop your at now and you want it being remote, unless I am misunderstanding?
4. This is true, but being late driving or not shouldn't be happening. So don't think this applies like your applying it.
5. I could see this being somewhat true. But im guessing in general if your sick, your sick and wouldn't be doing work.

I will say this much. I have a few friends who work remotely with their jobs. Every single one of them are taking more than they are giving as far as time goes. Good people too, do great work. But this is just a reality of it. For some shops that will be fine. Hell even in my shop I don't get after people as long as we are doing what we should be as far as time lines. Even heard some argue they may work better/faster at home. I have seen some studies saying that's true and some saying its false. It's interesting. Yes there are programs that monitor your mouse movement/keyboard inputs/even some that will take your picture now and then to make sure your working.

IMO no on the fly phone/camera/screen shot/messaging is going to be as accurate as you standing there holding the print.

All that said I do think you'll find something.

You are, missing a lot of the behind the scenes information.


1, No disrespect at all, I don’t mean it this way, but much of what you are feeling about this conversation is coming from your own current experiences and what you would do.  And I asked for that. I’m just providing another look at it also. There is a whole different world out there that operators very differently from the main stream small to id size shops. This industry consist of mom and pops on up to mega corporations. But I would agree that much of the industry would not or does not cover relocation.  For me, I’ve always been salary. I have had every employer cover my relocation except for one. And M&R, would have, if I needed to move there....but sort of doesn’t count. They are kind of outside this, but I didn’t need to relocate with them. Most businesses that are larger and lean more corporate do cover expenses for professional level employees. It’s the common thing. It’s more common (when hiring salaried people and most artist fall into a salary position) with these corporate type shops. Others will offer some sort of relocation compensation arrangement if not covering it in full and the majority of the industry doesn’t cover it.


2, You might have made some assumptions on this one. I didn’t mention a reason why I’m leaving this Co but here goes a little bit of it.
I’m not looking for (more) pay, and in fact, I don’t think that I can find many that will equal my current pay. I’m cool with taking a pay cut, with benefits. What that amount would be, will be based on several things with the company, etc. All for a conversation with that prospective employer.
I have a good paying job here. It’s just not a good job.  I’ve been co running this shop (for 3 years) even tho I was hired only as an artist/separator. Since the 2nd Operations Mgr had left about 2-3 months ago, I’ve been running it by myself and doing art/seps. Now, there has been some new developments and it’s even gotten worse. There are issues here and as a result, all employees quite just the other day. I’d of quite also, but I have orders here that have to be taken care of for my customers. There are other things behind this that should really not be put out there on the internet. Bad form on my part.


3,  I don’t know where you are getting that info on what I’m asking for. You’re mistaken somehow. I haven’t mentioned this until above in this post.


4, Well, it’s a factor for sure for some employee and you would not have that to contend with.


5,  Now you know YOU yourself, end up going to work when you don’t feel good. I’m working a lot when I’m sick. I come to work and keep a distance. Some don’t.  I’m just saying that this would be less of the case. It’s easier for employees to call off when they don’t feel good or use that as an excuse to go skateboarding.  When you work from home, that’s one less thing that can be used easily. Frivolous maybe, but it’s there.
 


I’m receiving what you are saying tho.  I’ve been aware of these and I’d feel the same way and have the same questions on this process if I were hiring. But somehow, it’s getting done that way for some.

[3Deep]

Let me toss this in here (didn't read every post word for word, so I might miss something already said) but this situation sounds a lot like the music industry once was, music artist had to go to a big studio to get there songs recorded and mastered costing a nice hourly fee, been there done that, now with all the new tech the artist now records there own music and master it right in there home studio cutting out those once big recording houses.  So Dan what I'm getting at with this is with all your talent you might can start your own sep house using remote guys/gals and supply that service to tons of shops, I might have a job drop on me that needs your talent even thought we are mom and pop but we can give our customers big time prints like the bigger shops using some of the same talent, leaving me with my inhouse tools for the smaller jobs without costing me a major weekly salary for one person. Know more freelance title if your Dan's Sep House and like already mention your talent pulls you all the work from across the country that you and your team could handle.

[GraphicDisorder]

I definitely believe there are some that would hire someone to work from home, I need zero convincing of that. I even said that. I am simply saying I think that is going to be a hard sell for the vast majority. I get it your looking for those rare deals. Good for you and as mentioned I think you'll find it.

As a employer, My intention was to give you what I believe is the the stance most shops will take, of any size.

[Dottonedan]

I would agree.  Most shops would be thinking the same things.
And you have given your perspective as I had asked. And that’s all good feedback and appreciated.   I was only replying to the reply. Good discussion.  No harm, no foul.

I gather that there was some confusion as to my reasons for leaving. It’s not about money.
Thanks!