DTF Game changer

[Maxie]

For a while I have been finding our as much as I can about DTF, I think for a lot of shops this is a game changer.      I'd like to share the information I have and hopefully other people will comment based on their experience and knowledge.     I think these units are going to change the way we work, all the small orders that we don't want will suddenly make us a lot of money.     I don't see any reason to invest in DTG is you have the option of DTF.
I started out looking at Chinese made units.     I was in direct contact with STS, they offered me a complete printer dryer for $8000.       I joined two Facebook DTF groups and listened to podcasts on 2 Regular Guys and Prontavo.
In the Phillipines they use a lot of small printers, looks like mainly Epson L1800 and the Facebook page is taken up mainly by printing problems, usually head problems.       It appears that the Chinese printers also give problems.
I am based in Israel, there are two companies here selling Chinese made units.      I have outsourced DTF work to one of them, printing is not bad but they have a problem with color accuracy and registration.     You see the white base, usually on one side of the image.      I have spoken to people who have this unit and they do not recommend it, they say it has lots of problems.     The firm selling them also does contract printing, I saw 5 units printing and every unit had a operator next to it.
The second unit I saw was at a print shop that does mainly small orders with lots of colors.      His machine seems to be better made.      He let his printers go and does everything on DTF.       He also spends a lot of time keeping his white heads open.       When I was there he was having trouble with the dryer.
Here they sell the Chinese units for about US$19000.
On You tube I found a post by Ed Michael, he works for STS in Florida.     STS are mainly ink producers.     I used their black for film before I switched to CTS and also their Sublimation inks.      They are selling a Mutoh printer that is made in Japan and has some changes that they made to the electronics so that it will print their DTF inks.       They also sell a Chinese made glue/dryer unit that they also made changes to so it will work with the Mutoh.     
What I like about their set up is that they are a ink manufacturing company that make their inks in the USA and understand color profiles.       I sent them a file to get a sample made, I also had a sample made by a Chinese company.      Their is no comparison.      I will post photographs of the prints.
One negative thing about the Mutoh is that it's a bit slow but I understand that you can leave it printing but their is a problem with the glue unit.      The glue powder drops into a tray below the machine and every few hours you have to pour it back into the top of the unit.      I heard that they are working on a system to recycle the glue powder.
So as Greg Kitson would say, that's my 2 cents.    Looking forward to hearing from people working with these units.     One thing, be careful, I don't think some of the units on the market are worth the money, and they are very expensive.

[blue moon]

Multicraft (local screen print supplier) is now selling a unit that has a glue head built into it and no powder is required. It is done when it comes out of the printer. about $30K if I remember correctly.

For us, the DTG has been working great and no interest in DTF right now.

pierre

[3Deep]

We have the L1800 machine which we all know was not built for DTF but converted you can use it, my take so far is yes it is slow when printing out large images I'm cool with that, yes the white ink heads will clog and you must do your maintenance on them to keep them open, color's work prefect,(if they could make the white inks work like the color I'd be in hog heaven).  Now as far as getting color's correct I really don't think that has much to do with the machine as much as it has it takes the right software and color profile, remember yes it's waterbase inks but your still printing cmyk so if your good at screen printing cmyk already in your shop then you should not have any problems because you already know how to set up your color profile.  Since we had our L1800 it's paid for itself and more,  we can now print those small jobs of one and two shirts or under 15, neck tags in the bunch's as we gang those up, caps, left chest same way. I look for someone in the near future to make a better white ink or a better printhead that will work with the standard white inks being produce now, the setup I have now works great for us because we only invested a few K to get into it, but when your talking about 30k to 60K your going all in, that's what I have screen printing for.

[zanegun08]

I wouldn't say game changer as the end result isn't good for large images.  I'd say it's a great tool but the best DTF still has a screen print base, which is why sourcing from Supacolor, Apex, Howard Transfer, Transfer Express is the best option.

It'd be nice to have in house for emergencies, but honestly I'm getting a little jaded about peoples emergencies, there is a tattoo shop nearby that has at the entrance "your lack of planning is not my emergency"

Yes DTF is cool, but even at $40 a shirt to sell a couple of shirts it just isn't worth the time unless you can automate the order taking.  It can be a "loss leader" to gain new business, but that is hard to quantify as you may be turning wheels when your time could be better suited fostering existing business or going after new good business.

DTF used as the right tool for the right job is a great tool that has improved immensely in the past few years.  I've been sourcing transfers for years overseas that are "DTF" or offset print with screen print base before the term was coined, however higher quantities, shipping times, and now shipping cost make it not as feasible with the options for domestic printing.

My kind of order flow

DTF - Best for
Low quantities 12 - 36 units with high color counts
Difficult placements on heavy garments (outerwear) or pockets
Small images
Tote Bags with high color counts
Foam Front Hats (can go on twill too)
Garments with bad Dye Migration

DTG - Best for
Low quantities 12-120 with high color counts
Larger images with heavier coverage
Not great for large spot colors, better for gradients

Screen Print Transfer - Best for
low color counts
Inside Neck Labels

Hybrid - Best for
Mid quantities 100-400 high color count

Screen Print - Best for
Low color counts or high quantity
High quantity high color count

So when approaching an order I look at artwork / garment / placement / quantity to figure out the best way to produce the image in my opinion, the second part is knowing what the customer deems as quality as I want to align with their vision.

We currently only do Screen Print and Screen Print Transfers internally, I am looking to Hybrid printing as our next tool to add, but the cost of entry is high so for the time being we outsource for DTF, DTG, Hybrid as our business doesn't have a ton of demand for Sim Process work, but I feel like if we built it they would come.

Where I would like to have DTF in house would be for printing inside neck labels since it'd be cool to offer multicolor, however in testing small details have to either just be white on a dark garment or you end up with under bases sticking out or the result not printing well.  Or really quick turn but that is less and less of an appeal to me now, and typically if someone needs a quick turn you can simplify their art to work with traditional screen printing to fit within timeline.

If anyone has a source for good inside neck label multi color printing let me know, my overseas sources once shipping is factored in makes the cost too high for a low dollar charge decoration so I currently just print internally as screen print transfer.

[DonR]

DTF to local retail customers is the fastest growing part of our business.  We offer in house screen printing, embroidery, DTG, Sublimation, and DTF. It's another tool to provide our customers with items they want. The breakdown given by zanegun08 looks about right to me. It also depends on the material of the garment. On some materials, DTF is the best way to go. While other materials will work best with DTG or a screen print. On our wholesale DTF side we have had customers purchase transfers to print up to 500 shirts with the same design.

[Rockers]

Matsui started selling there own printer earlier this year-ArtJet.
Around $30K
Tried the transfers printed with that printer in June. Very good quality.

https://www.msc-color.co.jp/art-jet/

[zanegun08]

The Matsui unit looks nice and doesn't break the bank.

However in their promo video they have white under base peeking out!

Could possibly be the glue and flash, but if the white is sticking out it's a bad transfer in my opinion.

Maybe can control the white base choke, but if I was making a promo video I would make sure to not show white sticking out under black.

[BRGtshirts]

The Matsui unit looks nice and doesn't break the bank.

However in their promo video they have white under base peeking out!

Could possibly be the glue and flash, but if the white is sticking out it's a bad transfer in my opinion.

Maybe can control the white base choke, but if I was making a promo video I would make sure to not show white sticking out under black.

Anyone know where you could get samples of the Matsui DTF? I like their WB ink a lot so wondering if their DTF will feel/perform the same?


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