weird screen problem

[Zelko-4-EVA]

i printed this screen with an i-Image ST, coated with Autotype Plus 2000 (about a week old), two coats on each side.  dried for about 5 days before imaging screen.

its only happened a few times on a few different screens - a few 200 mesh and a few 230 mesh... it looks like the ink is wicking away from where it was printed.  other screens printed with the same image didnt have the same problem.

has anyone seen this before and might have an idea of what i could do in the future to prevent this?

[inkman996]

Looks exactly like not enough moisture in the emulsion. We struggled with that when we first got out I Image. Using a humidifier was not working so all we do now is use a slightly damp rag to wipe each screen first to introduce moisture into the emulsion then print.

[Underbase37]

Ha looks very similar to something that came up for me the other day. I played with the humidity in the darkroom, up and down. And even tried face coating some screens to see if it was an eom issue. For us it seemed to be a possible low humidity issue. At the time we had just seen some big temperature fluctuations in our state, so I bumped the humidity up to 35-40.

Maybe it has to do with something similar. 

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

[Admiral]

I've seen that problem with water resistant (diazo) emulsions.  The inkjet ink pools up instead of absorbs a bit and holds the fine detail.  At least that was for us...

[RICK STEFANICK]

This is a common problem in shops with low humidity as stated. I have recently been consulting in several operations in las vegas and its dry. The i- image shops I recommend only coating a couple days ahead to prevent this from happening

[inkman996]

One shop I been to uses a hand held mister on their screens before imaging, I thought of doing that but find the damp rag works perfect every time never an issue.

[RICK STEFANICK]

DAMP RAG!! That's a damn good idea

[tbarnes]

M&R also carries different inks for different conditions. We had this problem when we were using the type D-2 ink...then we switched to T-6 and that worked for a while, but as the weather changed we started getting a weird like spider web cracking on the screen and solid areas were hard to spray out cleanly.

We are using K1 now and that has worked pretty well across the board.

[Jepaul]

Wax

[Dottonedan]

Wax

Making a suggestion to get rid of one that they have, that has already been working in all other cases but this one, and purchase another type...is not an answer. It’s your opinion or preference.  Wax has the benefit of working in all environments because it lands in a more solid state on the screen, and is a wax and not subject to water or cold. It’s subject to more heat, but in extreme cases that would not affect screen printing and making screens.  To say “go wax” is to indicate that wet ink does not work at all, easily, or well...and that would not be correct in the least.


The answer is/can be, multiple things.


1, The screen has sat too long. T-6 seems to like fresh screens and a little tack to them. Typically, most everyone uses screens within same day to 3-5 days. The older the screen, the more chances are given for pre-exposure and humidity changes. Not good for wax or wet ink.


2, The recent changes in weather and humidity does affect the bonding with some screen rooms and no change in other screen rooms. It’s a minor/easy fix balancing act for some.


3, The technique of coating can exaggerate this effect of change in humidity. Those who coat 1:1 on all or (low mesh), stand more of a chance of not having a flat surface to work with and the ink may pull or puddle down into the valleys of the mesh thread texture or (in the waffle valley). This is not a great method and would not be considered the industry standard but many people do this for ease. Especially on lower mesh. Leaves channels in the gasket for ink to get pushed out of the sides causing blurred edges and ink bleeding.




M&R does sell various types of ink, but they don’t intentionally sell those for various shops and environments to offer a variety. That is not their goal. The reason they have several, is to continue to make one best one, or to improve an issues with the previous “new” best one. Since there are shops that have never had any issues at all, there are some that still want their older "original”one and don’t want to chance changing it up.


Damp rag is another quick fix.

[Doug S]

Wax

Making a suggestion to get rid of one that they have, that has already been working in all other cases but this one, and purchase another type...is not an answer. It’s your opinion or preference.  Wax has the benefit of working in all environments because it lands in a more solid state on the screen, and is a wax and not subject to water or cold. It’s subject to more heat, but in extreme cases that would not affect screen printing and making screens.  To say “go wax” is to indicate that wet ink does not work at all, easily, or well...and that would not be correct in the least.


The answer is/can be, multiple things.


1, The screen has sat too long. T-6 seems to like fresh screens and a little tack to them. Typically, most everyone uses screens within same day to 3-5 days. The older the screen, the more chances are given for pre-exposure and humidity changes. Not good for wax or wet ink.


2, The recent changes in weather and humidity does affect the bonding with some screen rooms and no change in other screen rooms. It’s a minor/easy fix balancing act for some.


3, The technique of coating can exaggerate this effect of change in humidity. Those who coat 1:1 on all or (low mesh), stand more of a chance of not having a flat surface to work with and the ink may pull or puddle down into the valleys of the mesh thread texture or (in the waffle valley). This is not a great method and would not be considered the industry standard but many people do this for ease. Especially on lower mesh. Leaves channels in the gasket for ink to get pushed out of the sides causing blurred edges and ink bleeding.




M&R does sell various types of ink, but they don’t intentionally sell those for various shops and environments to offer a variety. That is not their goal. The reason they have several, is to continue to make one best one, or to improve an issues with the previous “new” best one. Since there are shops that have never had any issues at all, there are some that still want their older "original”one and don’t want to chance changing it up.


Damp rag is another quick fix.

I have noticed that also.   If I coat screens a day or two before I image them, they work much as far as ink laying down smooth and dark.  If they sit too long in the rack and become really dry the ink has a pattern in it leaving some areas light and others dark. 

[RICK STEFANICK]

Wax

ok, Honestly your a smarter business man than suggesting to fix a humidity problem by spending 65k on a wax machine. this guy was seeking straight up help. Not your preference. just sayin man!!

[inkman996]

Wax

ok, Honestly your a smarter business man than suggesting to fix a humidity problem by spending 65k on a wax machine. this guy was seeking straight up help. Not your preference. just sayin man!!

Times like your comment I wish they had a like button

[Zelko-4-EVA]

i would think the humidity would be the factor because:

if you look in the picture, we have the i-Image in a room that has two vinyl curtains that i drop down over the weekend.  the two humidifiers keep the i-Image at around 35-45% humidity.  trying to humidify the entire room (that has the screens and washout tank) would be nearly futile.

the ink we use is type K and we havent added any since march - we have averaged 20 screens a day.

[inkman996]

Our adventure to keep our small imaging room to 40 0r so percent humidity was futile endeavor. We first bought a small humidifier thinking its a small room it should not take much, then we went and bought a much bigger one and what we got was puddles of water, constant need to refill, and never the desired humidity. I think our problem was it was fighting the HVAC system and the HVAC always won. Even tho a small room the entire building was just sucking the humidity oout of the small room. We gave up and went with a damp rag solution. Never looked back