Waterbase Printers

[Ross_S]

Any of you waterbase printers have some time to chat?  I've been playing around quite a bit with some Magna inks and like my results but I've got some questions I'd like to discuss if some one has some time.  Please just message me here and I'll shoot you my phone number.  If your too busy during the day I'm available after hours.  Thanks in advance.

Ross

[TCT]

This may not be what you want to hear, and I SURE others have had other experiences, but we print a lot of WB/DC and this is my opinion... Ditch the Magna.

We tried a few years ago with them to use their products. They had special sales reps/tech people come in here and work with us and it was just harder than it needed to be. Stock became a big issue. We are in MN which means we stock up on all our pigments and bases we can't buy from the local vendors in November. They kept having issues(this may have changed) with only stocking a lot of the product in FL. Then there was dramatic consistency issues in the whites and some bases. Plus every year they would change their recipes and or line names. Then when you would actually talk with the people direct from the factory at ISS Long Beach, they would just say how the previous recipe was garbage and the new one was the bees knees.

It was too much. It made something already complicated much more complicated than it needed to be.

I could be wrong, but I believe their head of development left them and is now head of the Aquarius line for PolyOne. She knows her stuff.

Again, this is my opinion based upon experience a few years ago. It was just not worth using their product when so many others work well.

[Ross_S]

No issues with stock at all.  I tried this stuff a few years ago and had more issues then and I'm sure there is possibly a better option but this is what I'm playing around with at the moment.  My questions are more environment related.

[Ross_S]

To expand on my post; my questions were basically how to stabilize my process.  I responded to Alex's posts earlier as far as supplies goes.  I use Nazdar religiously at this point and Magna was a product they stood by and I can get with out any issues. 

With that being said what I was looking for was some guidance on the differences between printing on cotton, 50/50, and poly.  When should I consider using dye blockers (In my samples you can see the difference between cotton and 50/50)?  Would it be wrong to think I should be using one on a 50/50 red shirt.

What kind of retardants should I be looking at?  I had a sample from Permaset of a spray that went on the screen and then you just wipe it all over the screen.  I ran out of this and tried to make it using Magna Retardant Gel and some water (Not getting the same result).  I prefer this method because I had better results versus mixing the retardant into the ink. 

Then for my environment I'm in Ohio and the weather just sucks for consistency.  It's winter and today my shop was 70 degrees and 38% humidity.  I need to change my emulsion to a more true water resistant emulsion but I currently run a photo polymer with diazo (Have been for years).  The last couple days of printing with my make shift spray retardant worked but I feel it would be dreadful on large runs.  The flooding was very splotchy and the ink seemed to dry around the image not in it.

What kind of humidity or temp should I be trying to achieve and keep consistent?  Now mind you summer is coming and I'm thinking the humidity in the shop is going to be in the 80s.  Any thoughts or comments?

If anyone has some time to chat please message me and I'll give you a call.

Ross

[ericheartsu]

my two cents, if you want to be a WB printer, find the Virus/mark Coudray VIRUS course online, and pay the money to get it.

Doesn't matter if you're using virus or not.

[Ross_S]

I'll definitely look into that.

[TCT]

The more humidity you can get the better. We are in the same boat as you, up here at this time of year it is SO dry and we have a pretty false sense of how dry it actually is with the snow and cold. We run 2 whole house humidifiers all day long next to the presses. We keep spray bottles with a mixture of water/retarder in them, we call the "special needs water". On long runs if the ink is getting thicker we give the screens 2 quick sprays when they are flooded. If you spray too much it tends to mess up the ink for the next print because it is too "special".

I would suggest getting used to mixing the retarder into your ink, once it is habit then it is done and you don't even think of it. I think if I told my guys to not mix it in they would look at me like I was crazy, as if it is a key ingredient.

If you like spraying it on the screen to stop it from sticking to the print or shirt, you should do like you said and look for a different emulsion. Once you find a good water resistant emulsion, make sure you are fully exposing it. Then make sure again you are fully exposing it, verifying a 3rd time up in our climate wouldn't hurt! 

[brandon]

Well you have half the battle won. You found a line you like and can get. Stick with it and master it for your shop.

[ebscreen]

I'll add to beware of adopting product lines that may be going away. The PolyOne borg has threatened for years
to monopolize the industry, and in spite of several failures to do so, they seem committed with their newest offering.
I'm even a little fearful for our beloved Rutland WB-99.

[Bearded Lady]

I had similar problems with unavailability of the magna products but did like using it. I switched to nazdar a few years ago and biggest complaint with that is I have trouble storing custom colors that i mix. they often spoil and grow mold and/or maggots.  it's a gnarly surprise to open a bucket that's gone off.... anyone else have that problem?

I spend most of my time printing posters with waterbased ink made by TW graphics and have never seen it spoil.

[ericheartsu]

I had similar problems with unavailability of the magna products but did like using it. I switched to nazdar a few years ago and biggest complaint with that is I have trouble storing custom colors that i mix. they often spoil and grow mold and/or maggots.  it's a gnarly surprise to open a bucket that's gone off.... anyone else have that problem?

I spend most of my time printing posters with waterbased ink made by TW graphics and have never seen it spoil.

that sounds like your ink isn't sealed all the way. we mix tons of different colors, and have tons of ink from years ago, without any issues!

[TCT]

I had similar problems with unavailability of the magna products but did like using it. I switched to nazdar a few years ago and biggest complaint with that is I have trouble storing custom colors that i mix. they often spoil and grow mold and/or maggots.  it's a gnarly surprise to open a bucket that's gone off.... anyone else have that problem?

I spend most of my time printing posters with waterbased ink made by TW graphics and have never seen it spoil.

Our issues they attributed to the pails also not being sealed, which seemed odd because they had those metal clasps/seals around the tops. We would get a shipment nice and creamy, and the next one would be like plastisol consistency. Who knows if them not being sealed was or was not the issue. Seems odd because I know plenty of people like the product, wonder if it has anything to do with geographical location?

[Ross_S]

Thanks for the replies you guys.  Eric; I did reach out to Mark so I'm looking forward to expanding my printing knowledge.  Now if I could just find some younger printers who want to learn and make money.  Not to start another post but man today's youth is much different from when I began coming up.

[Ross_S]

Would anyone who sprays down their screens with a water retardant combo care to suggest a retarder to achieve this?  If you don't want to share publicly please message me. 

[woodrow]

I would suggest mixing the retarder into the ink and using a Water/Softener mix solution for spraying on screens, before adding the WB inks we pre-spray both the inside and substrate side of the screen. The solution works well during runs to keep screens clear and of course don't spray the image. Use distilled water as tap water inhibits mold