Who has the best bang for the buck in autos?

[Nation03]

MHM's system doesn't require carrier sheets or a pallet jig which is really cool. I've seen a video or 2 of a shop that uses it and it looks super easy and fast.

[Prosperi-Tees]

I just looked their FPU and the way the screen are  in the press without clamps and it looks pretty dang impressive. My question would be how do ensure that the "sockets" or whatever you call them that you have to put on your screens are in the "exact" location from screen to screen or does it matter?

[Nation03]

They have a tool that allows you to drill the holes in the exact position needed. Check out this video to see it.

MHM网版及菲林定位系统MHM PIN LOCK FILM POSITION UNIT - 视频 - 优酷视频 - 在线观看

We do a ton of 1 color short run stuff which is why I always thought MHM would be ideal for us. Slap the screen in and it is already centered and ready to go.

[244]

Buy what you can afford now but I strongly suggest that you don't buy a six color. We will take our machine in trade and 8 colors and up have a high residual value. Actually we have a waiting list for them.

[Frog]

I've always seen six color autos as mere  "mechanized manuals" while eight colors are knocking on the door of the "next level", and ten and twelve are what you get when you've "arrived" (or are planning on arriving)

But what do I know? I'm still pushing and pulling a squeegee myself!

[Homer]

P-T. I am going through this whole thing now, have been for a few months. . .at the end of the day M&R wins for us. I am going to a 10 color sportsman. we bought a 6 color gauntlet to get our feet wet in the auto world, not knowing a thing about autos. I never saw an auto until I opened the crate in my parking lot. Now I know what features I like, and I don't mean just features of the press. Presses are like cars, sure they will all work but what happens when it doesn't? THAT is the selling point for me. You can call Rich on his cell phone. . how many companies can you say that about?. I have been talking to so many knowledgeable people, on and off these boards - gotta tell ya, many negative words said about many machines, nothing but positive about M&R. MHM is right there as well, I am really thinking about checking out Pierre's to sneak a peak of one - but as of now, in my head it's the sportsman.

do not buy a 6. . .

[Prosperi-Tees]

The short time I have had my 6/8 Javelin I can totally see that 6 colors wont be enough in the future and features are definitely NOT on the Jav. But the Jav will make me enough money in the next 2 years and get me somewhat used to auto printing and when I upgrade I want to make sure I get the best bang for the buck and the fastest press to setup and teardown.

[Evo]

Bang for buck, IMHO, would be to go with the press that is part of a complete system. 12 color Sportsman EX with a double Tri-Loc and a 6kw Tri-Light? Good to go.

[alan802]

My favorite subject!

I've continued to study autos and obviously critique our RPM on a daily basis so I feel that I know them all pretty well.  I have not seen but one TAS machine and no P-tex in person but I think I've heard enough to base a solid opinion on them.  I've said this a hundred times and I mean it as much now as I did 2 years ago, I honestly don't think there is a better overall "machine" than the RPM.  It has so many features, way more than any other machine in it's price range, it's built like a damn tank, and it has the technology that makes it extremely reliable, extremely easy to work on if you ever need to replace a part, and no real weaknesses that other presses have.  I'm not so naive that I don't understand where the company falls short in a lot of people's minds, but trust me, the press does not fall short in any category.  I'll go ahead and say this:  If our press said M&R on it, and it had the support of a great company like M&R and a guy like Rich Hoffman behind it, it would be the best selling automatic of all time and it wouldn't even be close.  It would outsell the entire lineup of Anatol, Tuf, MHM, Progressive, P-tex combined.  I know that's a bold statement, but I believe it with all my heart.

I want to see a sportsman exg to see if it's really like my favorite M&R press of all time, the Gauntlet II.  If it is, then it is probably in the top 2 mid range autos out there.  The sportsman ex is obviously a great press, enough features and then you get the real support that all of us wish we had along with a great press.  I really like the MHM's, the E type is a great press, it doesn't have many weaknesses, maybe it falls short in some of the support like RPM does, maybe the flash units are a little weaker as far as flash times go than other flash units I've seen or used, but the machines themselves are pretty damn good.  TAS machines will be very reliable, but I feel they have just enough features to keep someone from wanting something else, and they just look and feel boring to me, just my personal opinion.  I've been really hard on Anatol the last few years after I compared a local machine that is in the same category as our press.  Maybe I've been too tough, but there are just a few things about them that I don't like, and nothing is going to change that.  They aren't built as heavy duty as I'd want in an auto, they do have plenty of easy to use features but it feels like they stop short of really knocking it out of the park.  It's almost like I get dissapointed because they fall short of their potential in my eyes, but then again, it's subjective and there are lot's of people out there that feel they've done plenty.  They have come up with some cool to some people features like the step back and the half index flash but I don't care for those because I feel that if your running an 8 or 10 color especially, you shouldn't need those features because if you are using them a lot, then you are doing a lot of things wrong prepress.  I also have heard plenty of rough things about the support after the sale when it comes to them, but there are lot's of manufacturers that fall in the same category and could stand to do better, my favorite auto included. 

The issue of registration systems is not really an issue any longer.  Almost all of the machines built now are compatible with the triloc or newman pin, and you can also build a damn good regi system yourself and have unbelievable results like we've had.  I wouldn't cross any manufacturer off my list because they didn't build a regi system.  With that said, the MHM will always have faster setup times than the others, but you can really come close with a triloc (modified in my opinion) or newman pin.  You can use those systems without carrier sheets and the film part will be as quickly done as on the MHM FPU.  I made our regi system FPU just like the MHM and made our pallet jig to work just like the triloc, so I've got a pretty solid system that is more accurate than I thought it was going to be, it's been fantastic.  Now if you are lucky enough to run a DTS/CTS along with your regi system of choice, then you've got it as good as you're going to get.  The MHM's will still be slightly better because you don't have to take a pallet on and off but in our case, that really doesn't take but a few seconds either way so it's not an issue in my mind since you could easily make up those few seconds somewhere else.  I am very anti carrier sheets and I won't use a system that uses them, but to each their own and I do see how they can benefit.  I just want to line the film up and tape it to the screen as fast as possible and the MHM FPU is the quickest way I know of to do that.

Well, that's just my humble opinion.  I know there are lot's of other factors that come in to play on the purchase of an auto, and we live in a day where we have way more great options when it comes to machines than we did 10 years ago.  We are very lucky in that sense.  And I completely understand why the RPM hasn't taken over the world, but trust me, it's not the machine's fault. 

[Prosperi-Tees]

I have been impressed with the RPM from what I have seen. The MHM really puts itself over the top with its FPU reg system. I dont like the idea of carrier sheets either.
Alan, I know there has been some interesting things going on with Rick F and the RPM brand. Are they going anywhere? Or is the Horse brand gonna take over? The press looks awesome but I am concerned about the longevity.

Also one press that I dont hear alot about but looks pretty impressive is the Falcon. I dont hear anyone running them and would like to hear more. And I dont mean the history of it.

[Gabe]

I use falcon is a very nice press nice features like m&r,without the price of m&r
nice technical support, rugged machine,, and built well
in fact one of the best shops in the southeast runs 3 or 4 of them

[Prosperi-Tees]

Falcon M 10 color @ $55K. Probably could get it cheaper. But not knowing the price of other 10 color presses I dont know where this falls in place. I know Alan has researched p-tx presses and something similar to the Falcon is in the mid to high 40s.

[Prosperi-Tees]

I guess what I am asking is the 40-50K range around where these presses run for a 10 color?

[Gabe]

we pay around 70`s for our falcon M 1O colors brand new 3 years ago

[GraphicDisorder]

Support...Not a single manufacture mentioned so far can touch M&R as far as support.  Unless you want 3rd party techs jacking with your stuff.  Not saying all of those guys are bad, but some of them are. 

I know this much, I am confident if I picked up the phone and called M&R, I could have a tech here tomorrow.