I had a chance to search more at the end of the day and came up with the LHF site and found Equinox too. They sure do have some purty fonts there. I've tripped over it before and love the examples, then gasp at the prices. In retrospect, of course, I could have bought the font for $45, so it would have saved us time and the customer money. But as I said, we'd already drawn it at that point. I'll turn my artists onto LHF for future reference. Still trying to find the bottom one, it's either very similar or dead on the New England Patriots font, checking on that...
Steve
ps. thanks for the offer Fluid