Rutland Discharge white plus as underbase for plastisol?

[im_mcguire]

Hey guys.
So Ive printed this same shirt for my client for the last 4 years.  Its a huge open are of white, with 3 spot colors on top.
They now want to run discharge.

I called my rep up, and he told me to use Rutland discharge white plus as a base, and print plastisol on top.

Has anyone here ran that before?  All of the research ive learned, was to pigment your discharge base with white, and flash and run your colors on top of that.

Any help here would be recommended.

Thanks!!!

[ericheartsu]

someone smarter than me will surely chime in, but i don't think you can use that as a base.

We've always mixed our base as 80% base, 20% white. As White discharge doesn't usually provide enough of a surface for the plastisol to latch onto, resulting in poor adhesion...but before anyone else says it, you should test it?

[ebscreen]

We've tested it, years ago at least. It would be pretty nice to print one white that acts as ub and
top at once. Unfortunately it is not to be.

Not only will top colors not adhere, you'll get terrible buildup of the white on successive screens.

The less white you can use in your base the better. For %97 of discharge underbase work we use
straight CCI Premium D-base. Add D-white to %20 for iffy fabrics or neony top colors.

Or, if you like, CCI makes a discharge underbase product that is the 80/20 mix (as far as I can tell)
described above.

[zanegun08]

If you follow what your rep says, your inks will fall off.

Like Eric said, you need to base down your discharge base if you want to do discharge + plastisol.

I would do it as a 5 color

Discharge Base (just pure base for best adhesion)
Could print discharge white here
Flash
3 Top Colors
Flash
Discharge White if you didn't do it earlier.

Some people say they get away without flashing doing discharge base, but I'm not a believer.

Also cure the shirt like 4 times as long as you really want to evaporate all the discharge, and with it covered with plastisol it takes more heat and time to do so.

And always, wash test.

[screenxpress]

Zane, I was okay till the "Discharge White if you didn't do it earlier." part. 

I'm only asking (ignorant) but why a discharge white at that point on top of the plastisol? 

Unless all the plastisol was knocked out of that screen and the discharge white is only falling on the discharge base?

I'm sure I'm missing something.

[ericheartsu]

I think he means printing the white, directly onto the garment. No base, no plastisol, and allowing for the DC to do what it does.

[im_mcguire]

I think Ill go the route and use the tested method of CCI D Base 80% and 20% white.

My sales rep said he has a lot of people who do it with the Rutland White plus, but Im not at a point where I need to try something out.

Ill post my print once we are finished.

Thanks all!

[screenxpress]

I think he means printing the white, directly onto the garment. No base, no plastisol, and allowing for the DC to do what it does.

I was questioning the use of Discharge white as possibly 5th color on top with a Discharge Base print.  I'm familiar with using Discharge White straight on substrate.  I guess it all depends on what mcguire is printing that needs a white screen.

[zanegun08]

I think he means printing the white, directly onto the garment. No base, no plastisol, and allowing for the DC to do what it does.

Correct, because your 80/20 mix will only get a super dull white if you even call it that.

So to save a flash, without seeing your design, you could go,

1 ) Discharge Base (or 80/20)
2 ) Discharge White (premixed white, we use Matsui Super 75)
Flash - This doesn't need to fully discharge, it may look dull on press but should be good at end of dryer.  Just enough so that it isn't lifting up on the next stations, and leave lots of room for cool downs.
3 ) Color
4 ) Color
5 ) Color

Where the discharge white is only the "Spot White" or 100% white areas.

Or alternatively with more flashes,

1 ) Discharge Base (or 80/20)
Flash - This doesn't need to fully discharge, it may look dull on press but should be good at end of dryer.
2 ) Color
3 ) Color
4 ) Color
Flash
5 ) Discharge White (premixed white, we use Matsui Super 75)

Trust me you don't want to use straight pre-mix white, by experience the ink falls of the shirt.  Which has me thinking you could use for a cool special effect for a 1 wash vintage look.

Our ink reps like to say that water base doesn't dry in the screen.  I would love to find a place where this is the case

[im_mcguire]

This is the design we are printing.

[zanegun08]

I would print this like so

1 ) Discharge Base (or 80/20) Choked back and only basing Navy / Light Blue / Red - 140 Mesh Double Pull
2 ) Discharge White (premixed white, we use Matsui Super 75) - 140 Mesh Double Pull
Flash - This doesn't need to fully discharge
3 ) Navy - 195 Mesh
4 ) Light Blue - 195 Mesh
5 ) Red - 195 Mesh

On 100% Cotton Garments

We don't use S-Mesh, and I think people on this forum state they use way higher meshes than necessary, or their prints are lacking opacity.  You can take a 110, and use a hard squeegee, steep angle, fast stroke, light pressure, and get similar results to printing through 280 mesh, but you can't go the other way as easily.

[RICK STEFANICK]

ok why not just run straight up discharge on the entire design?

navy-200
red- 200
lt blue -200
white- 160
no flashes

[screenxpress]

Rick,

If someone does not have all the colors in Discharge, could Plasticharge Color mixes and Discharge White last work?

[im_mcguire]

ok why not just run straight up discharge on the entire design?

navy-200
red- 200
lt blue -200
white- 160
no flashes

We dont have a complete mixing kit for the PMS colors used.  Also Im going into discharge wiith baby steps.  UB first with plastisol top, and then ill start plying with all discharge...

[Sbrem]

Rick,

If someone does not have all the colors in Discharge, could Plasticharge Color mixes and Discharge White last work?

We don't do a lot, but we do use Union's Discharge clear base, add the 20% white, flash it, and print the top colors in plastisol with a 230 mesh. The only time it failed was because of too much white pigment in the base, of which I was made aware by the fine printers here who use it all the time...

Steve