Getting a Vibrant Black

[Biverson]

Hey everyone,

As I'm getting more into WOW one problem I'm having is keeping a vibrant black. It looks pretty good right off the press, but once washed has some fibrillation and fibers coming up. I see a lot of people do blacks through higher mesh counts and what I did on the posted pic was - UB White 157/48, Flash, Black 157/48 (to lay down more ink), Grey 157/48 (not on Underbase), Orange 230/40, Yellow 230/40. One hit on each. 10 degree angle, fast stroke (60/100 on settings), 0.12 off contact, printed on P&C Core Cotton's. Black is NexGen which is the nicest black I've used. Should I move black to the end of the print order, but I don't want to step on colors to lose vibrancy with those?




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[Colin]

Welcome to the next level in sim process.... 

Option A) Run 2 blacks.  Your halftone black which would be your normal black screen.  Then a spot black with little to no halftones near the end/at the end/right before a flash to matte the fibers down.  You basically take your black - open up level or curves and clip everything up til 65/75% - this is a logical grey area and no one answer is correct.

Option B)  If you have multiple rich colors in your design (red/green/blue etc) - print a 50%-70% dot under the ~65% - 100% black (make sure its not muddying up the print.  this takes practice)- A better visual way of describing this - is to treat your colors like a cmyk separation that adds color info under the black to assist in making black richer/stronger/and more wash resistant.  The goal is to lay down multiple layers of ink to assist in your black trapping fibers.  You then want to print your black last - almost last and use a weak black, like a process black.  This will help your gradients from looking over saturated.  This is not a simple process.

Option C)  Flash after your black and accept the outcome.  This can be done early in your print sequence or later depending on artwork.

The only way to trap fibers is to A) use waterbase inks B) flash a layer of ink that is thick enough to bridge the garment, thus sealing away the fibers of the garment. 

Option A is not always feasible.  Option B leaves a heavy hand that is undesirable in this industry.  Thus we look into finding workaround that work for you in your shop.

I'm pretty sure Dan or Tpep have a few more options for you as well.

Oh!  Option D) Use a clear ink to seal everything - this can get glossy and creates a heavier hand...

[Biverson]

Welcome to the next level in sim process.... 

Option A) Run 2 blacks.  Your halftone black which would be your normal black screen.  Then a spot black with little to no halftones near the end/at the end/right before a flash to matte the fibers down.  You basically take your black - open up level or curves and clip everything up til 65/75% - this is a logical grey area and no one answer is correct.

Option B)  If you have multiple rich colors in your design (red/green/blue etc) - print a 50%-70% dot under the ~65% - 100% black (make sure its not muddying up the print.  this takes practice)- A better visual way of describing this - is to treat your colors like a cmyk separation that adds color info under the black to assist in making black richer/stronger/and more wash resistant.  The goal is to lay down multiple layers of ink to assist in your black trapping fibers.  You then want to print your black last - almost last and use a weak black, like a process black.  This will help your gradients from looking over saturated.  This is not a simple process.

Option C)  Flash after your black and accept the outcome.  This can be done early in your print sequence or later depending on artwork.

The only way to trap fibers is to A) use waterbase inks B) flash a layer of ink that is thick enough to bridge the garment, thus sealing away the fibers of the garment. 

Option A is not always feasible.  Option B leaves a heavy hand that is undesirable in this industry.  Thus we look into finding workaround that work for you in your shop.

I'm pretty sure Dan or Tpep have a few more options for you as well.

Oh!  Option D) Use a clear ink to seal everything - this can get glossy and creates a heavier hand...

Thanks for the suggestions Colin! Your post has me thinking another way I could have set it up. Print Grey, White, Flash, Black, Orange, then Yellow. Have the grey either halftoned or full spot underbase for the black? Or I could interlock the white and grey for a solid base. That way if any black comes up I've got the darker color grey to alleviate any of that. I've had trouble flashing black and it gettin' smokey. I had to use all heads but one on my press. If I had to use head 7 I would have lost my unload station for my employee. My Volt has a Heads-up option on head 7.

[Colin]

Dark gray then white - yea, that could work.  I assume the grey was not overlapping any parts of the white.  Make sure they dark grey is about a 65% tone under the black.  Hitting it wet on wet on the back of the white will thin that out a touch creating a very smooth surface for the black to print over.

My one concern is that - with some white in that grey - it "could" end up making your black just a touch milky...  But, there is only one way to find out!

Yea, welcome to the joys of quartz flashes and inks with black in them

Remember, there is not always a simple solution to this.  Test as much as you can and keep notes and shirt samples to refer to!

[Biverson]

Dark gray then white - yea, that could work.  I assume the grey was not overlapping any parts of the white.  Make sure they dark grey is about a 65% tone under the black.  Hitting it wet on wet on the back of the white will thin that out a touch creating a very smooth surface for the black to print over.

My one concern is that - with some white in that grey - it "could" end up making your black just a touch milky...  But, there is only one way to find out!

Yea, welcome to the joys of quartz flashes and inks with black in them

Remember, there is not always a simple solution to this.  Test as much as you can and keep notes and shirt samples to refer to!

I think you're right with the halftones making the black milky. I would also hate to contaminate the white with any gray. If I were to do this again I would do a 65% tone gray underbase and have it have a 4px gutter (1200dpi) with the white to prevent any contaminating.

I've tried having a halftone unberbase before when I only had a manual and you could see the halftone in the top spot color. Would that not happen here? Is the benefit of having it be halftones over solid  UB just the hand?


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