CTS Head Failure - How to tell?

[Colin]

Whats your exposure times Eric?  We were using the PHU before the iimage came in.

[ericheartsu]

Whats your exposure times Eric?  We were using the PHU before the iimage came in.

Yeah we've been using it almost exclusively since we got the I-image in 2014.

We switched from PHU to PHU2 in later 2014, and then switched to Diazo in the PHU2, in 2017. About 3 months ago, we switched from the M&R exposure system on our STEII (front and back bay), to the Saati LED.

a 230/48 thin thread exposes for around 62 seconds with the Saati Light.

[Colin]

Ok.  Our 225/40 thin thread exposes for 12-13 seconds on our Starlight.

Thats the T9 with diazo.  I wonder what the conversion is for the Saati light to starlight?

Hey, this is Brandons post and his tech should be hard at work by now:

Give us updates Brandon!

[ericheartsu]

We switched to the saati light, and immediately saw better detail and resolution in our imaging. We were able to dial in exposure so that our halftones came out better. To my understanding it gives a better light spectrum.

[brandon]

All great info on this thread for everyone! All good learning. Tech will hopefully be here tomorrow

[DragonflyGraphics]

I don't mean to highjack this thread but I did want to get the outcome available. It seems as though it was a cable on our machine. Tech came and started replacing one thing at a time and the main cable that connects the print head to the machine seems to have been the problem. Makes sense now. It would print fine for the first few inches of the design while the head was all the way forward and then gradually loose it as the head moved back. The cable being in the cable holder thing bending as the head moved back... M&R did a good job as usual despite my frustration. I have a pic of the problem if anyone wants to add it here or see it to make all of this make sense. Email me al@dragonflycentral.com  I hope the info helps someone down the road and I hope the OP gets up and running very soon.

[Colin]

oh goody - yet another way the head can go bad   Glad it got fixed though!  You should be able to drag and drop your image from your computer.  There is an "attachments and other options" tab at the bottom of your post reply screen.

Eric - We can resolve the 1-2% dots @ 60 lpi- that the iimage gives us - on our starlight with the T9 and diazo on the 225s mesh.  Does the PHU give you the same?

[DannyGruninger]

oh goody - yet another way the head can go bad   Glad it got fixed though!  You should be able to drag and drop your image from your computer.  There is an "attachments and other options" tab at the bottom of your post reply screen.

Eric - We can resolve the 1-2% dots @ 60 lpi- that the iimage gives us - on our starlight with the T9 and diazo on the 225s mesh.  Does the PHU give you the same?

Have you linearized the output of your i image? I was on a consulting trip recently and measured the output of one. The 2% on that machine without a curve adjustment in the rip was around 10%, the 50% range was in the mid 60’s, etc. I’ve measured a few wax machines now and it’s funny how close they all are but everything has a ton of gain with stock settings from my experience.

[blue moon]

I can understand your frustration. There is nothing like having the same issues over a long period of time with the (supposed) experts not being able to find anything.

It's there, (the answer) but it's something that they just don't see yet and don't know where/how to attack the problem. They really are good at what they do, but you have to remember, these DTS machines are not like a Ford or Chevy. They haven't been around for years and years with every home mechanic being able to know them inside and out. The techs are far and few between and takes some time to get really familiar with them. They are skilled techs and even the newest Tech knows more about these machines that anyone on the outside. Some have said "Awe, it's just a printer", but it's more, much more than just a printer. Simple yet complex. I know Alex very well and he is indeed a good guy. He is excellent at his job and he will send in the most available yet the most skilled for the specific problem at hand.

Your problem will get fixed. They always do. The question is, how long will that take.

At least they will get it fixed once they figure out the issue. Imagine having a press with bent shaft and a manufacturer refusing to fix it!!!

pierre

[DragonflyGraphics]

Pic of print that turned out to be a cable.

[blue moon]

oh goody - yet another way the head can go bad   Glad it got fixed though!  You should be able to drag and drop your image from your computer.  There is an "attachments and other options" tab at the bottom of your post reply screen.

Eric - We can resolve the 1-2% dots @ 60 lpi- that the iimage gives us - on our starlight with the T9 and diazo on the 225s mesh.  Does the PHU give you the same?

Have you linearized the output of your i image? I was on a consulting trip recently and measured the output of one. The 2% on that machine without a curve adjustment in the rip was around 10%, the 50% range was in the mid 60’s, etc. I’ve measured a few wax machines now and it’s funny how close they all are but everything has a ton of gain with stock settings from my experience.

I must have read almost 50 films for ppl by now. NOT one 50% was below 62% and most came in at 70% or so. On the low side, most gain is about 5% so 2 reads as 7% (in some cases 9%). This is with film though, but in the end they all produce the dots the same way. . .

pierre

[Colin]

oh goody - yet another way the head can go bad   Glad it got fixed though!  You should be able to drag and drop your image from your computer.  There is an "attachments and other options" tab at the bottom of your post reply screen.

Eric - We can resolve the 1-2% dots @ 60 lpi- that the iimage gives us - on our starlight with the T9 and diazo on the 225s mesh.  Does the PHU give you the same?

Have you linearized the output of your i image? I was on a consulting trip recently and measured the output of one. The 2% on that machine without a curve adjustment in the rip was around 10%, the 50% range was in the mid 60’s, etc. I’ve measured a few wax machines now and it’s funny how close they all are but everything has a ton of gain with stock settings from my experience.

My 50% is now printing juuuuust under 50%.  I have pulled back on the shadows a touch and my 10% dot a touch.  Doesnt mean its printing "correctly" however.  I don't have the tools here to correctly measure my dots in the shadows or highlights.  I have to go off of eye..... I'm older now and need glasses lol.  I would love to have the tools - or someone with the tools come in and run a quick calibration though!

I can understand your frustration. There is nothing like having the same issues over a long period of time with the (supposed) experts not being able to find anything.

It's there, (the answer) but it's something that they just don't see yet and don't know where/how to attack the problem. They really are good at what they do, but you have to remember, these DTS machines are not like a Ford or Chevy. They haven't been around for years and years with every home mechanic being able to know them inside and out. The techs are far and few between and takes some time to get really familiar with them. They are skilled techs and even the newest Tech knows more about these machines that anyone on the outside. Some have said "Awe, it's just a printer", but it's more, much more than just a printer. Simple yet complex. I know Alex very well and he is indeed a good guy. He is excellent at his job and he will send in the most available yet the most skilled for the specific problem at hand.

Your problem will get fixed. They always do. The question is, how long will that take.

At least they will get it fixed once they figure out the issue. Imagine having a press with bent shaft and a manufacturer refusing to fix it!!!

pierre

Oh geebus..... My inner lawyer is hopping mad reading that....

[blue moon]

oh goody - yet another way the head can go bad   Glad it got fixed though!  You should be able to drag and drop your image from your computer.  There is an "attachments and other options" tab at the bottom of your post reply screen.

Eric - We can resolve the 1-2% dots @ 60 lpi- that the iimage gives us - on our starlight with the T9 and diazo on the 225s mesh.  Does the PHU give you the same?

Have you linearized the output of your i image? I was on a consulting trip recently and measured the output of one. The 2% on that machine without a curve adjustment in the rip was around 10%, the 50% range was in the mid 60’s, etc. I’ve measured a few wax machines now and it’s funny how close they all are but everything has a ton of gain with stock settings from my experience.

My 50% is now printing juuuuust under 50%.  I have pulled back on the shadows a touch and my 10% dot a touch.  Doesnt mean its printing "correctly" however.  I don't have the tools here to correctly measure my dots in the shadows or highlights.  I have to go off of eye..... I'm older now and need glasses lol.  I would love to have the tools - or someone with the tools come in and run a quick calibration though!

there is no easy way to calibrate the CTS output. find the test pattern I made and print it on paper or even better, get a calibrated printout on film. Than lay it over the screen print of the same and compare the dots. To make it even better, print a shirt or sheet of paper through the pattern and see how much gain you get. We found out that even though the dots on the emulsion were correct size, once actually burned they were only a fraction of what they were supposed to be (for lower percentages). So our 5% is now printing as 8% or so on the screen, but once washed out it makes the correct size opening. This is in part (my belief) due to lower Dmax on the outer edge of the InkJet droplets (they are taller in the middle thus work better there than on the periphery).

pierre

[Colin]

oh goody - yet another way the head can go bad   Glad it got fixed though!  You should be able to drag and drop your image from your computer.  There is an "attachments and other options" tab at the bottom of your post reply screen.

Eric - We can resolve the 1-2% dots @ 60 lpi- that the iimage gives us - on our starlight with the T9 and diazo on the 225s mesh.  Does the PHU give you the same?

Have you linearized the output of your i image? I was on a consulting trip recently and measured the output of one. The 2% on that machine without a curve adjustment in the rip was around 10%, the 50% range was in the mid 60’s, etc. I’ve measured a few wax machines now and it’s funny how close they all are but everything has a ton of gain with stock settings from my experience.

My 50% is now printing juuuuust under 50%.  I have pulled back on the shadows a touch and my 10% dot a touch.  Doesnt mean its printing "correctly" however.  I don't have the tools here to correctly measure my dots in the shadows or highlights.  I have to go off of eye..... I'm older now and need glasses lol.  I would love to have the tools - or someone with the tools come in and run a quick calibration though!

there is no easy way to calibrate the CTS output. find the test pattern I made and print it on paper or even better, get a calibrated printout on film. Than lay it over the screen print of the same and compare the dots. To make it even better, print a shirt or sheet of paper through the pattern and see how much gain you get. We found out that even though the dots on the emulsion were correct size, once actually burned they were only a fraction of what they were supposed to be (for lower percentages). So our 5% is now printing as 8% or so on the screen, but once washed out it makes the correct size opening. This is in part (my belief) due to lower Dmax on the outer edge of the InkJet droplets (they are taller in the middle thus work better there than on the periphery).

pierre

I have watched that in Macro with the T6 ink pulling away during cracking...  I completely understand your statement about image area and ink density.  Anyone have a sheet that I can use for comparison?

[blue moon]

oh goody - yet another way the head can go bad   Glad it got fixed though!  You should be able to drag and drop your image from your computer.  There is an "attachments and other options" tab at the bottom of your post reply screen.

Eric - We can resolve the 1-2% dots @ 60 lpi- that the iimage gives us - on our starlight with the T9 and diazo on the 225s mesh.  Does the PHU give you the same?

Have you linearized the output of your i image? I was on a consulting trip recently and measured the output of one. The 2% on that machine without a curve adjustment in the rip was around 10%, the 50% range was in the mid 60’s, etc. I’ve measured a few wax machines now and it’s funny how close they all are but everything has a ton of gain with stock settings from my experience.

My 50% is now printing juuuuust under 50%.  I have pulled back on the shadows a touch and my 10% dot a touch.  Doesnt mean its printing "correctly" however.  I don't have the tools here to correctly measure my dots in the shadows or highlights.  I have to go off of eye..... I'm older now and need glasses lol.  I would love to have the tools - or someone with the tools come in and run a quick calibration though!

there is no easy way to calibrate the CTS output. find the test pattern I made and print it on paper or even better, get a calibrated printout on film. Than lay it over the screen print of the same and compare the dots. To make it even better, print a shirt or sheet of paper through the pattern and see how much gain you get. We found out that even though the dots on the emulsion were correct size, once actually burned they were only a fraction of what they were supposed to be (for lower percentages). So our 5% is now printing as 8% or so on the screen, but once washed out it makes the correct size opening. This is in part (my belief) due to lower Dmax on the outer edge of the InkJet droplets (they are taller in the middle thus work better there than on the periphery).

pierre

I have watched that in Macro with the T6 ink pulling away during cracking...  I completely understand your statement about image area and ink density.  Anyone have a sheet that I can use for comparison?

I know somebody!!!!

pierre