CTS Head Failure - How to tell?

[DannyGruninger]

5 years and running CTS here..... Never had a single head issue, wax or ink. Results for sure vary but cts/dts is the best machine for our workflow here at DPH

[brandon]

Hey Danny, do you still prefer it over the lazer and if so can you elaborate? I believe they are now being sold with a few not too far north of us so I am curious to hear your opinion. Thanks!

[ZooCity]

Yeah that's the weird part is there's guys like you who have had totally smooth sailing with the printheads.   

These things are printers after all...

[DannyGruninger]

Hey Danny, do you still prefer it over the lazer and if so can you elaborate? I believe they are now being sold with a few not too far north of us so I am curious to hear your opinion. Thanks!

Out of everything out there wax dts is my go to choice. It's a toss up between the douthitt and the kiwo xts for me. The new douthitt w/ speed mode and a couple other mods the workflow is the fastest dts out there, but for on press registration the kiwo xts provides the best results as the xts mimics how a screen clamps on press where the other units traditionally use a drum(pusher frame) which creates registration errors. The laser technology is really cool but I could not make it work in my production here for multiple reasons. Currently I am using the newest douthitt wax unit with a lot of success but the kiwo does offer some advantages imo like eliminating the pusher frame/having the z axis on a motor.

[Colin]

If I could get away with it I would turn this one into a boat anchor and go wax...

I am so done with being the guinea pig for a teenage scientist.

[ffokazak]

I'm going to say that yes, we've had head issues in the past, and yes it is a hard pill to swallow but man, CTS is the single handedly most beneficial system we have in the shop.

I would stab myself before going back to film, and if it means having to replace print heads so be it.

I also should state we converted over to a single head I-Image from a 2 head machine, because I didn't want to have to replace two heads again.  Don't notice any workflow issues, ( We do about 50 screens a day) and I minimized the risk, as there is always a backup head here.  PLUS the detail with a single head is better, as the 2 heads slipped out of calibration eventually.  Nothing to calibrate on a single head...

Also I sourced out cheaper Ricoh gen 4 heads, and can find them for about 800$ euro on sale.

Not an easy pill to swallow... but damn CTS makes the process so much easier.

[DragonflyGraphics]

My I image is down since last Thursday. Doesn't seem like a head problem, seems more like some sort of communication issue. Prints fine the first couple inches and then starts double imaging left to right. Have replaced the encoder strip and now waiting on the strip reader and maybe a tech. We are printing film on our 54 inch Roland and praying. Film sucks and I never want to go back but it was reassuring having three Epson 3000's laying around.

I am building an inventory of spare parts. The encoder strip is $75. Unless you happen to live in Chicago why not have one on hand is what I am thinking. When I find out what this problem is I will certainly try to stock the parts I need. And I will post it on this thread so maybe it will help someone in the future.

[Dottonedan]

If I could get away with it I would turn this one into a boat anchor and go wax...

I am so done with being the guinea pig for a teenage scientist.

 Teenage scientist?  LOL.  Who might that be?  Alex is like 35 yrs old. He does have that scientist look about him.
Once your specific issue is resolved, you will be back saying how much you love it.

I'm one of the mist critical when it comes to screens and halftones. Wouldn't change a thing here (no need to) and I would not see any benefit on the printed shirt compared to wax. People say it's a better shaped dot. That in and of itself, means squat really. I've said it many times before. I used to believe and used 2400-3600dpi perfect round dot to get the best results. I've proven to myself that's just not the case.

One type might perform with more ease than another and one might cost less or more than another, and one might have more consumption than another. That should be the focus in my opinion. One day, I'll be at someones shop that has wax and I may get the chance to get into the guts of it but so far, a good print is a good print coming from both types. The proof is in the pudd'n so to speak.  I'm sure you will have break down and need parts for both types as well.  Look at the old Epson films printers. They break down and need repair but it cost less...but probably more frequently but you have all that film cost etc.  A lot of pro's and cons with DTS in any form being better by a lot.

[Dottonedan]

My I image is down since last Thursday. Doesn't seem like a head problem, seems more like some sort of communication issue. Prints fine the first couple inches and then starts double imaging left to right. Have replaced the encoder strip and now waiting on the strip reader and maybe a tech. We are printing film on our 54 inch Roland and praying. Film sucks and I never want to go back but it was reassuring having three Epson 3000's laying around.

I am building an inventory of spare parts. The encoder strip is $75. Unless you happen to live in Chicago why not have one on hand is what I am thinking. When I find out what this problem is I will certainly try to stock the parts I need. And I will post it on this thread so maybe it will help someone in the future.

I've seen some printer cables end up getting a bad wiring connection in the past between the printer and the computer. Maybe something breaks inside for some reason. That can cause double imaging but there are other areas for bad connections as well. Could be a loose wire, (had that happen). Could be a bad sensor etc.  Having the Tech evaluate is the best choice in my opinion.

Whenever I had any issues with a print they always said, check the encoder strip.  I've only ever come across one shop, one time when it actually was the encoder strip, but it's one of the things we had to check and that place did not clean their machine like ever. It was covered with like 4-5 yrs of black over spray mist and even bent up a little. Replaced that and was back up and running.

Hope it goes well.
D

[Colin]

Dan - when I don't notice anything going wrong - I LOVE MY MACHINE!  (DTS is amazing) 

But....Its been over 2 months of back and forth with only some stuff actually fixed and resolved.  I keep running around and wasting a RIDICULOUS amount of shop time.  Hence the test subject reference.  Teenage scientists like to try lots of different things just to see what happens...

The latest:

M&R told us to replace the D2a ink with T6 and at the same time they were going to replace the print head. I told them the emulsion I use (murakami T9) and the environment I am in.  They replace everything and work on it all day trying to get stuff fixed.  Getting the print head nozzles to fire properly looks 95% fixed!  What helped a ton was going down to a negative pressure of 1.6  We still have shadow ink splatter, fuzzy edges, and some haloing print issues on smaller text (its most obvious there).  They cant figure it out.  The tech spent hours going over the machine - left here stumped and exhausted.  Got stuff in a much better place - but its not fixed.

Here is the current big one and what I talked about above:

The T6 ink cracks (looks like cracked earth) and pulls away from the edge of the print.  This causes issues if I have a thicker stencil and need to expose for a longer period of time... My stencil edges look "shredded" and it noticeably takes longer to spay out an image with the wet emulsion looking "sandy or gritty" (the cracked ink lacks proper UV blocking power).  The only solution is to not make thicker stencils and cut the window on my exposure times very narrow.  *I like to over expose when making screens for waterbase printing.*  This became a habit and I ended up over exposing most screens - I do not overexpose to the point of loosing detail - I still keep all the image detail in the screens.  Oh, the cracking/longer rinse out also happens if I need to double up a screen with 2 images.  The first image gets to sit for a few minutes drying up and cracking.

I was initially told by M&R that my environment is "too dry".  My screen room is at 32%-38% humidity on average and my dry box sits between 30% and 35% on the dehumidifier display.  The dehumidifier is set to 40% and its a wood box, so it breathes a bit.  Even when I pushed the room and box up to 40% humidity - the T6 still cracks.  This is still apparently not their problem - my room is not properly set.  Or... maybe the emulsion is not compatible... (remember I told them what I am using)

Well - I ended up asking multiple times over 2 weeks - what IS the proper humidity and room setting for Murakami T9 emulsion (that I have been using since installation).  Absolute silence on the part of M&R.  What I did get from them was - after much asking - "Switch back to the D2a or change your emulsion"  wait... what?  I was told this was the fix... huh?...

Now, when we have some down time, we will need to switch out the T6 ink to something else.... Or find another emulsion to use as per M&R's suggestion, so switching inks it is.

I email M&R a new issue the week after the techs left - hey, why do I have satellite dots?  They remote in and mess with stuff - I test the changes - its not fixed.  I ask again a week later, how do we fix this - I get yelled at for not having the head temp turned on, on the print head!..... wait... didn't you guys remote in last week and look at all this and play with settings?  Why wasn't that adjusted? (and why was it off in the first place?)  I fix the temp (no, we do not mess with that setting ever unless directed by a tech).  Satellite dot issues are reduced, but the softness/fuzzy edges remain.

I just want things to work.  I don't want to have to keep chasing this problem for over 2 months.  All the suggestions have felt like shots in the dark... throwing darts at the machine... then stuff was thrown in that messed things up in another way, causing us more headaches...

I am obviously Highly frustrated and I am sure Alex is sick of seeing my emails pop up

The reference to a wax machine is a metaphor for a non M&R machine.

Thanks to all those reading this for bearing with my frustrations.  Hopefully this will help someone in the long term.

[LuckyFlyinROUSH]

Why don't you just switch emulsions. I would stick with the T6, by far.

[Dottonedan]

I can understand your frustration. There is nothing like having the same issues over a long period of time with the (supposed) experts not being able to find anything.

It's there, (the answer) but it's something that they just don't see yet and don't know where/how to attack the problem. They really are good at what they do, but you have to remember, these DTS machines are not like a Ford or Chevy. They haven't been around for years and years with every home mechanic being able to know them inside and out. The techs are far and few between and takes some time to get really familiar with them. They are skilled techs and even the newest Tech knows more about these machines that anyone on the outside. Some have said "Awe, it's just a printer", but it's more, much more than just a printer. Simple yet complex. I know Alex very well and he is indeed a good guy. He is excellent at his job and he will send in the most available yet the most skilled for the specific problem at hand.

Your problem will get fixed. They always do. The question is, how long will that take.

[Colin]

Why don't you just switch emulsions. I would stick with the T6, by far.

I honestly see no difference on the screen between the T6 and D2a.  Other than cracking, there is no performance change - that I can actually see and measure.  The assumption is T6 is better on the head/nozzles because it is more fluid - but no one has "Stated" that as of this time.  Why have you made the decision to stick with the T6?

If T6 is truly better long term, can you point me in the direction of an emulsion that has at least the same (or better) solids/water resistance/discharge resistance/insane detail resolution as Murakami's T9?  Finding another "right emulsion" will take far longer than switching out the T6 for D2a.  Walt from Murakami will be up in the Portland area next week for the NBM show.  He is supposed to be stopping by my shop so I can get some great answers from him then.

And thanks Dan.  Yea, these are very complex, very delicate machines.

[T Shirt Farmer]

If I could get away with it I would turn this one into a boat anchor and go wax...

Dam* Colin this is a raw shake of events you have going on, your comment might be the best solution a shop your size can eat up $50K lost revenue from a critical piece of equipment quickly. Really taken back the vendor can not get you dialed in with a predictable setup.

Best of luck getting this cleared up.

[ericheartsu]

Why don't you just switch emulsions. I would stick with the T6, by far.

I honestly see no difference on the screen between the T6 and D2a.  Other than cracking, there is no performance change - that I can actually see and measure.  The assumption is T6 is better on the head/nozzles because it is more fluid - but no one has "Stated" that as of this time.  Why have you made the decision to stick with the T6?

If T6 is truly better long term, can you point me in the direction of an emulsion that has at least the same (or better) solids/water resistance/discharge resistance/insane detail resolution as Murakami's T9?  Finding another "right emulsion" will take far longer than switching out the T6 for D2a.  Walt from Murakami will be up in the Portland area next week for the NBM show.  He is supposed to be stopping by my shop so I can get some great answers from him then.

And thanks Dan.  Yea, these are very complex, very delicate machines.

We switched from D2a to T6, and that helped us to get rid of the satellite dots. We just replaced our heads (for another reason), and Alex was trying to get us to buy parts which would have resulted in $3-5k worth of wasted parts if we would have listened. It's been a couple of months since we've switched, and i'm trying to recall what the explanation was, as to why switching the ink helped get rid of those dots. Let me ask my Screen guys if they remember.

We are using Saati's PHU2 with Diazo though!