short bodied white inks. looking for a suggestions. . .

[ErinAllenLamb]

Just a couple notes about Whites.  I of course would recommend Epic Quick White for a Low Bleed White. It is short bodied, creamy and can clear a range of mesh counts. IT is also smooth and has a great matte finish with extremely fast flash times. The Little Sister or Brother to Epic Quick White is Epic Sprint White. It has the same qualities as Epic Quick White, but it is a cotton white, so it doesn't have bleed resistance.

Epic Warrior White is a new white that was released. It also has great properties, but is a bit less Matte Finish and will not flash quite as fast.  I suggest testing it as well.

I agree with using white straight out of the bucket.  Ink manufacturers design inks to be used that way and to use modifiers as needed, ie a soft hand application or extra stretch.

Other things to think about when choosing white is what do you generally print on. If you generally print on 100% cotton garments, then there is no need to have an ink that has bleed resistance. You are not only wasting money, but in rare occasions you may see ghosting.  How warm is your ink before you are testing it? How much have you mixed the ink? Inks are thixotropic and the more you move them the better they flow. Are you following the print guidelines for that particular white? 

Not every ink is created equally, it is important to look at ink specifications and make sure you are following the manufacturers recommendations.  This will ensure optimum performance.

[blue moon]

QUICK UPDATE:

Tony is not full of it!!! (as we all know by now!). We ran 500 pieces with Rutland Streefighter LB white this morning. 'was very pleased with it! This was only one job, and we'll have to test with sim and 50/50, but so far so good. It is most definitely the type of ink I was looking for. At one point we had it stroking at 4 (on a 10 scale) which is the fastes we have printed with the white ink.

The coverage was very nice (very large area, fuzzy ringspun cotton) and it cleared comparably to what were were used to before. Possibly even a little better. The print was two strokes of white through a 160. We preheated the plattens to get the ink flowing and maintained a little bit of flash to keep everything warm.

stay tuned for more prints and more inks. . . .

pierre

[Screened Gear]

Pierre,

Is the Street Fighter white sticky? Did you modify it at all? I am using the Quick white and I add some reducer and I have it printing and flooding at 5 or 6 on may of my runs. (I have used 3 gallons of Quick white so far) I remember getting a sample of Street fighter white and I liked it alot. It only came in 5 gallons so at the time I didn't get any past the sample.

Jon

[JBLUE]

QUICK UPDATE:

Tony is not full of it!!! (as we all know by now!). We ran 500 pieces with Rutland Streefighter LB white this morning. 'was very pleased with it! This was only one job, and we'll have to test with sim and 50/50, but so far so good. It is most definitely the type of ink I was looking for. At one point we had it stroking at 4 (on a 10 scale) which is the fastes we have printed with the white ink.

The coverage was very nice (very large area, fuzzy ringspun cotton) and it cleared comparably to what were were used to before. Possibly even a little better. The print was two strokes of white through a 160. We preheated the plattens to get the ink flowing and maintained a little bit of flash to keep everything warm.

stay tuned for more prints and more inks. . . .

pierre

So was it a double stroke that got it to clear? I have a gallon of Street fighter II (LB) and that stuff is thicker than crap.

[blue moon]

Pierre,

Is the Street Fighter white sticky? Did you modify it at all? I am using the Quick white and I add some reducer and I have it printing and flooding at 5 or 6 on may of my runs. (I have used 3 gallons of Quick white so far) I remember getting a sample of Street fighter white and I liked it alot. It only came in 5 gallons so at the time I didn't get any past the sample.

Jon

I did not modify it at all. Printed it straight out of the bucket, but we did make sure to warm everything up and slowly build up speed. The replacement white we were trying out would not clear even under those circumstances. Ross ran into the same problem with the same ink, so it is not just us.

From what I have seen, any white that will flood or clear on a 5 or 6 is not really delivering the results we are after. This is not to say that you might not be getting it, just that we are not. We have tried inks suggested by other printers and were getting horrible results with some of them.

This ink is pretty stiff, but very usable. While it did stay together between the squeegee and the floodbar, it did not climb.

pierre

[Screened Gear]

Pierre or anyone else,

I know this is hard to know that I am talking about...Does the print feel rubbery soft after the print does thru the dryer? I have been really happy with the feel of the wilflex quick white ink after its printed. Its the only ink so far that I have tried that feels rubbery soft. Alot of inks I have used can print a nice thin glass like print but they are not rubbery soft like the Quick white. (I hope I don't sound too stupid here)

[blue moon]

QUICK UPDATE:

Tony is not full of it!!! (as we all know by now!). We ran 500 pieces with Rutland Streefighter LB white this morning. 'was very pleased with it! This was only one job, and we'll have to test with sim and 50/50, but so far so good. It is most definitely the type of ink I was looking for. At one point we had it stroking at 4 (on a 10 scale) which is the fastes we have printed with the white ink.

The coverage was very nice (very large area, fuzzy ringspun cotton) and it cleared comparably to what were were used to before. Possibly even a little better. The print was two strokes of white through a 160. We preheated the plattens to get the ink flowing and maintained a little bit of flash to keep everything warm.

stay tuned for more prints and more inks. . . .

pierre

So was it a double stroke that got it to clear? I have a gallon of Street fighter II (LB) and that stuff is thicker than crap.

this print was on ringspun Anvils (490). I have quite a bit of experience with them. One of our award winning prints is on it as are the shop shirts we printed for ourselves. I don't think I've ever managed to clear the white screen on that shirt in one swipe. It is just too lofty/fuzzy. So getting it to clear and lay down nicely on this particular shirt was a huge plus (compared to the last few inks we have been using).

The ink is rather thick, but really not that bad at all. I think a better description would be dense. One of the hings I was looking for is the sharp edges when the ink is pulled out of the bucket. Stuff we have been using sort of dulls out and stretches. It is sort of like the bubble gum. The first white we used if you pulled the spatula out, it broke rather than stretched and it left multiple peaks and valleys at the breaking point. Wilflex Epic performance white did the same thing, I guess I'll have to check it out a little bit more (I think it was supposed to be really expensive so I did not consider it).

We are printing some navy shirts now and using it as an underbase. It look pretty good. The coverage is not as good as the inks with puff, but it is better than acceptable. Shirley (our press operator) is digging it so far and was just saying how nice it prints.

So, another quick recap, it floods and strokes faster than what I am used to. It clears/shears nicely. The coverage is better than average, but not spectacular. It is low bleed so potentially can be used for everything but the heaviest of the bleeders.  The color is very cool white (bluish). The print looks very consistent and the edges are very crisp. Finish is not glossy, but not as satin as I am used to. The top color on the underbase looks very nice and smooth.

stay tuned, more to come. . .

pierre

[blue moon]

later in this run, the ink started climbing and we could not get a hard flood. 'did not have the time to tinker with it, so we finished printing the way it was. I'll have to see what it takes to keep it on the screen. . .

pierre

[alan802]

later in this run, the ink started climbing and we could not get a hard flood. 'did not have the time to tinker with it, so we finished printing the way it was. I'll have to see what it takes to keep it on the screen. . .

pierre

That's the issue I had with the Snap white.  The more you use it, the shorter the body gets then you don't get a good fill in the stencil because all of the ink is on the back of the squeegee.  I know it's not good to be part of the white ink of the month club but why is it so hard to find a white that's does everything really well?  I've been able to make any white look good but I'm picky and want everything to be the way I like it.  I want great  opacity, the right body and slump characteristics so it doesn't climb the squeegee and fast flash times...is that not possible anymore?  The SF LB is not bad at all, I'm going to buy more because it's the best for the price out of all the inks I've tried but damn, trying two dozen different whites since July is ridiculous.  I'm so sick of sampling white ink, I'm about ready to take a chance and buy the Ultrasol G4 straight from Mexico.

[inkman996]

The company i used to work for many many years ago a supplier sold Triangle inks as well as Union and Rutland. Phoenix white was by far the largest quantity white sold, and we sold to some serious print shops. 5 gals and barrels every day all day long. I used the ink for years and still would if the supplier near by did not go out of business, today I just cant justify buying one product from somewhere when I can shop some where else and get all I need.

Any ways I give a thumbs up for Triangles phoenix it is the closest i have ever had to near perfect all around white.

[Homer]

we have been going through about a gallon of white a week- Pheonix White wins. I love Buffalo and quick white, but there was always something lacking. I manually printed with pheonix today, prints like any other color, we ran t's and hoodies on the auto -1 pass on a 160. I'm done searching.  and to be honest, I really didn't want to like it because I had an issue with triangle back in the day, but this stuff is fantastic. I'm sold.

P -I noticed you are not saying white white you were using. . .

[alan802]

P -I noticed you are not saying white white you were using. . .

And it seems like he wants to, come on Pierre, throw them to the wolves   Just kidding, I understand completely, I've been in a few situations similar.

[blue moon]

no secret, I have said this before. . . We used to use the EZ Print white from Union ink. While it seems that the formula for the phthalate version changed (or I received a bad batch), the reality is, we are moving to the phthalte free inks and the version they have is just not cutting it. As time goes by they might adjust it and make it work better, but right now it does not work for us. Again, please remember, just because it does not work for us, it does not mean that it will not work for you. We are still pretty new to this and from the limited experience so far, I am pretty darn certain that we are pushing too hard with the squeegees. Somebody with better or different technique might not have any of the issues we do. For example, many knowledgeable ppl have recommended the Russel gray and we could not make it work if our life depended on it! So as with most other things in this industry, your mileage WILL vary.

Joe from Union promised to stop by the shop in the near future and I'll have him look at everything we do. All our inks are made by Union and I would prefer to stay with their product. But as of right now, we need a phthalate free white that works.

pierre

[ebscreen]

Is Phoenix pthalate compliant?

Damnit why am I asking. We're sticking with Quick. We're sticking with Quick. We're sticking with Quick.

[IntegrityShirts]

later in this run, the ink started climbing and we could not get a hard flood. 'did not have the time to tinker with it, so we finished printing the way it was. I'll have to see what it takes to keep it on the screen. . .

pierre

That's the issue I had with the Snap white.  The more you use it, the shorter the body gets then you don't get a good fill in the stencil because all of the ink is on the back of the squeegee.  I know it's not good to be part of the white ink of the month club but why is it so hard to find a white that's does everything really well?  I've been able to make any white look good but I'm picky and want everything to be the way I like it.  I want great  opacity, the right body and slump characteristics so it doesn't climb the squeegee and fast flash times...is that not possible anymore?  The SF LB is not bad at all, I'm going to buy more because it's the best for the price out of all the inks I've tried but damn, trying two dozen different whites since July is ridiculous.  I'm so sick of sampling white ink, I'm about ready to take a chance and buy the Ultrasol G4 straight from Mexico.

I thought you were ok with qcm 158 and mixing a little soft hand in with it as necessary?  That's what I'm still doing and just got a new 5 gal bucket in and it has a little stiffer consistency but is still predictable to print.