short bodied white inks. looking for a suggestions. . .

[mk162]

One stroke EJ speical white auto was my go to for a long time.  I might re-investigate that one.

[Ron Pierson]

I guess I'll reach in here.... We are contract printers. We print for a very wide spectrum of clients and their customers.

We have been using Triangle Phoenix exclusively for well over 10 years. I now buy it in drums. I have bought 10-15 drums of it this year alone - we use alot of it. (I've printed over 1.2 million shirts this year) It seems to work across most substrates without an issue, quick flash, good laydown, good washibility, good with 100% or 50/50/ cotton, ect. We use their Poly white for 100% polyester.

Yes, occasionally some poly shirts bleed through. On the ones that bleed through, we have tried EVERY TRICK WE HAVE to make it stop - sometimes it's just the garment. (I have every other poly here for this kind if testing when we need to try to fix an issue but these issues are very rare)

I like the idea of "one white" in my shop - (and the poly for special issues). It keeps confusion to a minimum. At this pace, we don't have the time to be a lab or testing facility for different inks or processes. Sometimes a good price gets in the way of timely production. Cheap isn't always the solution.

I'm not in any way affiliated with Triangle Ink.

[tancehughes]

Glad to hear others out there are having great success with Phoenix White... Pierre, you will have to share with us how it works for you once you try it out!

[blue moon]

OK, so I have the Streetfighter and Phoenix on the way. We'll test and I'll let you know.

Still open to some other suggestions.

pierre

[ZooCity]

Hey Pierre,

Your issue with the phthalate-free or phthalate-compliant inks may be due in part to the increased coverage these ink supposedly have.  I wouldn't know the difference as we were phthalate-free from the start but that's what I've heard is that they have higher coverage.  You may have to decrease the thickness of the deposit using these inks from the old ones or perhaps introduce a little transparency to certain mixes. 

I feel your pain, we switched ink systems (though both were phthalate-free) this year and it's funny how far off the the results between them can be when printing PMS colors.  At this point, I'm re-approving swatches for most jobs just to be safe, I've had a couple of color issues already after the switch and those mistakes are expensive. 

Regarding modifying white ink- we print straight out of the bucket, mixed well and warmed up. I have to mostly disagree that you need to make up your own white formula.  We do have another bucket with a percentage of Fashion Base and a little bit of viscoity buster mixed in for jobs where we want a different hand or need a slightly thinner white on lighter cotton only and typically for sim process type of prints but this is fairly rare.  Your main white should clear well through all your mesh counts without modification and ought to be very consistent from bucket to bucket in my opinion.  There's just so many variables already and seeing how white ink is inherently a bit of a struggle to work with I want the ink to be a static variable.  Just my take on that, your own experience will certainly be unique. 

[ZooCity]

Anybody checked out this Warrior White yet?  I also attached the Quick White tds for comparison.

I can't really see the difference between the two on paper.

[ZooCity]

Just did a price check and the Warrior is nearly half the price of the Quick.  I'm not one to buy on price but at $36/gal by the 5er I may check it out just to see. 

[Homer]

I like the fact the Ron has great success with the triangle Pheonix. . .time to stop screwing around with so many damn inks and print. I do not modify white, if you have to modify to make it print, you are using the wrong ink for the job, IMO. . .

so far today, many good words were spoken of the pheonix, usually there's a "WTF is this, cement?!" . . .guys here like it.

[squeegee]

Yea I wasn't going to say anything on this but I agree with Zoo.  For one, it's a real time waster to constantly be making your own "white du jour".
If you find a white that you like and can consistently print with it, personally I'd stick with that ink.  Also the inherent properties of the ink like viscosity, bleed resistance and opacity will change, so unless you're making your own white the same way it's time proven, then I wouldn't bother with modifiers unless for an extreme situation.  There are so many choices for white, find one that can be printed well and with good results straight out of the bucket and leave the formulating to the ink companies.  That's just my opinion on the matter.

[Prosperi-Tees]

Int Coatings 7031 Ultra white is short bodied, soft and very opaque.  We run different pressures for different things, but it will print with very low pressure 1.5-2 bar in the right scenario.  It has moderate low bleed properties, I don't use it on bad 50/50 bleeders like red, maroon, sapphire but it's fine on black, navy, royal and others that don't bleed horribly.  Use it a lot for sim process UB's.

If you like a little puff, try Wilflex Buffalo, used that for probably 5 years, went to the IC to get away from the puff.  I'd say Buffalo is about the same as the 7031 on bleed resistance.

I agree 7031 is a great ink. short bodied and very easy to print. I started out using the Ryonet white which is made by IC but I dont know which one it is but whatever it is I dont like that Ryonet white.

[tonypep]

I mentioned to Pierre earlier today that we are not in the ink mixing business we are in the printing business. Dulling powders, reducers, stretch additives and the like should be around to use in a pinch but not an everyday practice. Too much "ink tinkering" can lead to cross-contamination and before you know it you don't know whats in the bucket. There is a good selection of whites that work perfectly fine out of the bucket. Triangle's Phoenix has long been heralded as the one to beat but it can be price prohibitive for some. Nike pretty much insisted on using it so we had that and an economy white that was practically as good at half the price. Of course if a more expensive product is saving money by enabling increased throughput then it is worth it.
Finally and unfortunately, the ink is often misdiagnosed as the rot of a problem. Often other overlooked pre-press varibles and print parameters are the cause.
Good subject, I believe it comes in second only to mesh tensions when it comes to opinions.

[Zelko-4-EVA]

Too much "ink tinkering" can lead to cross-contamination and before you know it you don't know whats in the bucket.

we have too many different whites and a high turnover of employees...  one day i got fed up and dumped the random white inks into a 5g bucket.

wilflex solar white for everyday use
union 1070 polywhite for 100% polyester,
50/50 mix of solar and 1070 white for 50/50 shirts and fleece,
50/50 mix of solar and soft hand clear,
random mixes of white and fashion soft/nova/soft hand clear...

after a few minutes in the ink shaker my stress level went down 100%

[tancehughes]

Tony, I agree! I love talking screens and tension, I also believe this is the most important step in the entire screen printing process. Too many times products are blamed for a printer's problems when the problem usually is in the screen.

[squeegee]

The "screen wars" could only be preceded by the "auto wars" 

[alan802]

Let's do battle!!!