Dye migration in 100% cotton tees?

[mk162]

I printed an order of Next Level tees and as the shirts sat overnight, the black bled into the white.  I know they were brighter going down the belt and my stomach sank when the customer opened the box.

Anybody heard of this before?  I've never had the problem on standard tees, just the Next Level tees.

Strange.

[tonypep]

Next Level use cheap (most likely sulphur) dyes. A bleed resist white like my current favorite Streetfighter White should "stop the bleeding". Just before the Holiday we ran a one color white front and back on 20,000 of these with no issues. Still I don't care for them. And don't even think about discharging them.

[DILLON]

I was about to say no, but I remember that once I was printing red their royal colored shirts, and after curing the red looked darker...

[Frog]

Before he passed, Richard Labov of Union and I used to speak pretty regularly (I was sort of a liason into the world of forums, lol).
One of the last things he spoke of, besides the CPSIA nightmare, was the poor dyes he was was seeing in even 100% cotton.

We all know that Camo is a big risk, but now find out that even some plain solid colors can be trouble as well.

It's good to get the word out on these known offenders, so printers know to bring out their heavy guns (and charge a little more, and perhaps even include a disclaimer on contract work)
The one thing that may be a saving grace is I don't think that we'll  have the 50/50  two week delay effect which can be a killer!

edit: Brad's experience with a delayed bleed is news to me.  Even though overnight is not as bad as a week or more, it still means that the whole job gets run.
This brand gets a sample printed, even with another design running the same ink if more convenient.

[tonypep]

Just an FYI Andy Camo's are rotary or sometimes belt printed goods. Some refer to the inks they use as dyes but technically they are WB inks with little bleed resist. Same can be said for the Boxercraft spiritwear pants. Interestingly enough, certain patterns and colors such as pink discharged beautifully while others such as (no suprise) royal
and kellly resisted the process somewhat. (I have some pictures laying around if anyone is interested.
Even on those stubborn areas the discharge process lightens the inks and locks in the bleeding. I am working with them now on developing a discharge/ plastisol print application that not only reduces the hand considerably, but cuts down from three flashes to one quickie, and reduces ink cost.
Therefore saving some dough. One day when I get my hands on some camo I will replicate and see.

[RICK STEFANICK]

yep, those sulfur dyes are considered low energy dyes and are very unstable at much lower temps than others. In 30 years I personally have never had a issue on 100% cotton. i have a freind who still does all over sublimation and works closly with holt mfg.Its unbelievable how complicated some of these issues really are with garment dying/heat etc..

[squeegee]

I printed an order of Next Level tees and as the shirts sat overnight, the black bled into the white.  I know they were brighter going down the belt and my stomach sank when the customer opened the box.

Anybody heard of this before?  I've never had the problem on standard tees, just the Next Level tees.

Strange.

What white ink was used?

[mk162]

a 5% thinned bright tiger.

maybe it was the thinner that got me

[jsheridan]

Nah.. it's the shirt. I try not to use NL's as they are known to discharge horribly.

[mk162]

Its strange because I have printed the crap out of these tees before.  Black, red, etc and no problems.  Maybe the stock I am getting now is worse than before.

I'll test some other whites on it and see what I come up with.

[tonypep]

Most blank mfgrs are having their products produced in different factories and often different countries. If they don't hold them all to consistent standards you will see, among other things, shading issues. Which of course mean different dyestuffs.

[JBLUE]

Its strange because I have printed the crap out of these tees before.  Black, red, etc and no problems.  Maybe the stock I am getting now is worse than before.

I'll test some other whites on it and see what I come up with.

I print the crap out of these as well.I am surprised it bled with BT. I will be running some today so we will see what happens.

[mk162]

I ended up giving the customer a discount on this order and a discount on his next order.  Stinks, but it beats eating the shirts.  It's such a bummer because I worked hard to make sure these were done perfect, and we get bitten in the rear.

Oh well, I have some next level tees here and I am going to test a few different inks on them.  There is no reason for this junk to happen....at least not on 100% cotton tees.  I have less problems with poly tees than I do with cotton tees now.  UGH.

[brandon]

Yeah, I agree with Tony and John about NL t's. They discharge horribly. And I swear they never pack an order right. We pretty much stopped using them except for when our contract clients supply them. We just had a 5000 piece order and they sent about a fourth wrong shirts and sizes. Massive pain the ass. Thanks NL!