Do you treat S-Mesh differently?

[Frog]

I see mentions of MS-2 degreaser in this thread, but wonder. Something new, not on their site?
Murakami's is just labeled MS
http://murakamiscreen.com/products/screen-chemistry-2/degreaser/

[cbjamel]

I see mentions of MS-2 degreaser in this thread, but wonder. Something new, not on their site?
Murakami's is just labeled MS
http://murakamiscreen.com/products/screen-chemistry-2/degreaser/

That is it Frog.
 Thanks,
Shane

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[Biverson]

Does anyone else notice that their S mesh looks differently when coated? I can tell an S mesh from a standard by the amount of gloss it has. It's more shiny versus the standard mesh which is more matte and transparent (Saati PHU).


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[mooseman]

Does anyone else notice that their S mesh looks differently when coated? I can tell an S mesh from a standard by the amount of gloss it has. It's more shiny versus the standard mesh which is more matte and transparent (Saati PHU).


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yes basically because you are most likely getting better EOM on the S mesh and the thinner mesh is deeper in and less influenced by the light your eye sees.
You will kind of see the same thing if you compare a 230 mesh coated screen to a 156 coated screen using the same coating process on both. The 230 will be more transparent simply because there is less emulsion captured in the mesh and the mesh itself is somewhat thinner relative to the 156 mesh.
mooseman

[ABuffington]

Hello Al here from Murakami.

Many have pointed out that S Mesh from Murakami achieves more EOM than a similar mesh count with a thicker thread.  So also mentioned here, use the sharp coating edge on S mesh, 1:2 at the very most, or 1:1 for less EOM if you are having trouble exposing details.  For Spot color try a 1:1 dull edge.

MS Degreaser can  be ordered through our distributors and drop shipped if they do not have it.  If your Murakami distributor doesn't want to drop ship you can order it directly.
800.562.3534.   

I also have an employee hand out/poster on how to handle S mesh if you would like one.  Just PM me.

The other main area of difference in Murakami S Mesh vs any other mesh is retained tensions.  Longer print life at optimum tension is worth every penny.  Accumulated elongation is another.  As mesh warms up during the print it can elongate as well on top of the forces that it' under already.  It's called Smartmesh due to "mesh memory", the ability to come back to it's original position stroke after stroke.  Sorry for the sales pitch, but the phrase "mesh is mesh" is highly inaccurate and something I hear often, not in this thread, but it deserves some research.

Al

[mooseman]

Hello Al here from Murakami.

Many have pointed out that S Mesh from Murakami achieves more EOM than a similar mesh count with a thicker thread.  So also mentioned here, use the sharp coating edge on S mesh, 1:2 at the very most, or 1:1 for less EOM if you are having trouble exposing details.  For Spot color try a 1:1 dull edge.

MS Degreaser can  be ordered through our distributors and drop shipped if they do not have it.  If your Murakami distributor doesn't want to drop ship you can order it directly.
800.562.3534.   

I also have an employee hand out/poster on how to handle S mesh if you would like one.  Just PM me.

The other main area of difference in Murakami S Mesh vs any other mesh is retained tensions.  Longer print life at optimum tension is worth every penny.  Accumulated elongation is another.  As mesh warms up during the print it can elongate as well on top of the forces that it' under already.  It's called Smartmesh due to "mesh memory", the ability to come back to it's original position stroke after stroke.  Sorry for the sales pitch, but the phrase "mesh is mesh" is highly inaccurate and something I hear often, not in this thread, but it deserves some research.

Al

An excellent post. Every so often a product comes onto the market that actually performs as  advertised OUTSIDE THE LABRATORY. As a simple spot color , manual printer we find this product pretty much out performs the associated hype but best of all does it in real world conditions.  i have absolutely no association with this company or product other than I own some 150 & 180 S-mesh that I purchased and use it every day.
nice to own something that works.
mooseman

[fishman08]

We had the same issues when we switched to Smesh. We tried a lot of different things, degreasing, screen prep chems, even abrading, thinking that the emulsion just wasn't bonding with the mesh properly.

But ultimately we realized that coating the same way was giving us way too much EOM. When I finally got a gauge we were up in the 50% range.  All that open area can hold a lot of emulsion.

So we started  switching around our coating methods and even tried out a new scoop coater and we were able to get our EOM back down to the high teens / low 20s.

There's a lot of variables that effect eom, besides the emulsion itself and how many coats per side. Also what kind of scoop coater, sharp side, round side, how fast or slow you pull it, how much emulsion is in the coater. 

As you're adjusting your coating  methods, make sure to use an exposure strip calculator and see if you're rinsing out at least a solid 7 and make sure to rub it with your finger on both sides to see if the emulsion really holding on to a 7. 

It's definitely a balancing act with all of it. You don't necessarily need an eom gauge, but keep a note pad out and just keep track of your adjustments and results.

JUst a simple add on question. What scoop coater are is recommended for s-mesh or rather would you recommend.

[Colin]

Any scoop coater that is free of nicks, divots, rough spots, etc...

[jerryperrish]

Just an update here:   Like I said, I use Cryocoat emulsion and usually degrease with simple green.  I tried out the cryoPREP degreaser that goes along with the cryocoat, and I'm pretty sure it made a big difference in adhesion.  I've only tested a few screens so far, but I think all in all it'll solve my issue. 

[screenxpress]

Just curious.  Have you tried just pressure washing following reclaim and skipping the degrease step?

I use Newmans and bulk mesh (Some S-Mesh) and cannot remember when I degreased last (horrors) and I'm using Cryocoat with no problems with adhesion.

[mimosatexas]

I can't imagine not degreasing...even not properly rinsing causes the only issues I have with adhesion. Skipping d egreasing and trying to get nice halftone would be a crapshoot...

[screenxpress]

Just call me lucky then.  45 lpi Halftones as well as 100% Solids.

[Prince Art]

I can't imagine not degreasing...even not properly rinsing causes the only issues I have with adhesion. Skipping d egreasing and trying to get nice halftone would be a crapshoot...

Just call me lucky then.  45 lpi Halftones as well as 100% Solids.

Different local water could potentially give different results, possibly making degreasing necessary in some locales but not in others. Just a thought.

[screenxpress]

Interesting thought.  I had forgotten some localities have hard water, some soft, and some in between.  I'm in Houston and you may have hit on something.  I used to degrease, but have not noticed a difference either way.