DTS image not remaining clean turning blurry

[Colin]

This is kinda split from Ron Pierson's thread about a buggy rip/illustrator combo


I have copy/pasted my comments regarding Vector files not printing clearly.  Dan had mentioned he would respond in a separate thread and I figure what ever info he has, its worth it for everyone to know, even if I'm being a dunce

I have watched printed edges get wonky...  It is an issue in the rip (regarding trapping not looking consistent with amount of edge overlap).  I have changed how I do my base whites now, but I used to do a .5 trap with a color that I wont print.  Then take my white base and select multiply so I could send over a single file to the rip.  That would throw the rip a curve ball on occasion... I have watched fine lines disappear that way and more complex pieces literally disappear. 

I have switched up what I do now, I actually remove the trapped area from the base so it is physically smaller, but I have still seen things go... oddly... If I try to give a measurement to the change its close to the equivalent of 1 or two pixels at 600 dpi...

Right now I have noticed on a single color image my small circle R images are getting egg shaped.  But its not a complete circle, the leading edge of the circle looks like it disintegrated into dots, then prints fine, then the back edge gets fuzzy....

But I am also looking really closely at what we are producing and taking pictures of my stencils.... I think they look neat.

Its hard to capture this one properly with my phone... 225s mesh and the circle r is really tiny.  The other one is my registration mark.  Line width is 1 point I think, I will check tomorrow.

Edit:  I should mention humidity in the room is always below 40% and above 30%.  Screens are always dry coming out of a controlled booth averaging 35%-40% humidity.

[Colin]

The registration mark:  You can also see some ink droplet splatter that was there, but not visible in the other photo.

[blue moon]

This is kinda split from Ron Pierson's thread about a buggy rip/illustrator combo


I have copy/pasted my comments regarding Vector files not printing clearly.  Dan had mentioned he would respond in a separate thread and I figure what ever info he has, its worth it for everyone to know, even if I'm being a dunce

I have watched printed edges get wonky...  It is an issue in the rip (regarding trapping not looking consistent with amount of edge overlap).  I have changed how I do my base whites now, but I used to do a .5 trap with a color that I wont print.  Then take my white base and select multiply so I could send over a single file to the rip.  That would throw the rip a curve ball on occasion... I have watched fine lines disappear that way and more complex pieces literally disappear. 

I have switched up what I do now, I actually remove the trapped area from the base so it is physically smaller, but I have still seen things go... oddly... If I try to give a measurement to the change its close to the equivalent of 1 or two pixels at 600 dpi...

Right now I have noticed on a single color image my small circle R images are getting egg shaped.  But its not a complete circle, the leading edge of the circle looks like it disintegrated into dots, then prints fine, then the back edge gets fuzzy....

But I am also looking really closely at what we are producing and taking pictures of my stencils.... I think they look neat.

Its hard to capture this one properly with my phone... 225s mesh and the circle r is really tiny.  The other one is my registration mark.  Line width is 1 point I think, I will check tomorrow.

Edit:  I should mention humidity in the room is always below 40% and above 30%.  Screens are always dry coming out of a controlled booth averaging 35%-40% humidity.

to my eye, that is the head not firing properly. your horizontal lines are clean, but the verticals are out of sync. What does the test pattern look like on that machine? can you show us a picture of it?
are you running bidirectional? try uni and see if it gets better.

just guessing here . . .

pierre

[Dottonedan]

That's a pretty good guess Pierre. You are very hot on the trail.

This is not a RIP issue at all.  It has to do with voltage that fires the heads. Too much or if it's out of sync slightly, it can cause this.  I'll have to get back into ours to give better direction. This can be a little challenging to isolate without looking at printed test results as to what direction to go in. It's voltage related and could also be temperature related as well. Not all machines work best at the default settings and is why it may take some time after install before seeing these smaller, finer issues.  It has to be synchronized with the horizontal alignment and temp. That alignment requires some testing and is out of the normal calibration test we do at installs. It's called "left and right bias" calibration and is done in the Printer Control program.

The challenging part is that let's say your head (temperature) has been working fine, and your NP (negative pressure) may have been fine as well. Adjusting another area like voltage may slightly skew these other setting (a tad). That may or may not be noticeable. Things like this may need adjusted (fine tuned) by a tech on site.uf it's not very impactful in a negative way overall, you may want to just wait till a tech happens to be in your area and they can make a pit stop. If it were to be a charge, it could be a split on cost since they are in your area. You have to request that and explain the issue. They don't randomly stop in unless there is a need.

[Colin]

Yay I'm not crazy!

I'm glad you guys could see what I was trying to talk about with my blurry cell phone pics.

I will talk with the owner and give my local rep a call about it.

I will try and take a pic of my test lines this morning... again, cell phones....

Thanks!!!

[mk162]

you can shoot through a jewelers loupe and get a pretty decent shot of it FYI.  I've done it through a microscope and it works.

[Colin]

I have 10x magnifies at work that I use to assist.... its the "focus" part that my phone decides to throw a fit about...

[ericheartsu]

I'm assuming this is on an I-Image. What ink are you using?

We had problems like this when we were using the K Ink.

[Colin]

Currently using D2 ink.... but I was told very recently that that ink is harsh on the print heads.. calling M&R today to get the skinny.

Single Head.

Registration mark is a 1 point line thickness.

Unidirectional
Grey 12 passes+
Speed: low
Step: 2336
1200x900

We asked for it to be set up for best quality at all times.

We have just under 3000 prints on our machine and it has been installed for jussssst over 1 year.

[Colin]

one more

[Dottonedan]

I'm assuming this is on an I-Image. What ink are you using?

We had problems like this when we were using the K Ink.

A change in ink can help hide this due it a change in ink thickness/thinness but yea, the issue is still there.

[Dottonedan]

Currently using D2 ink.... but I was told very recently that that ink is harsh on the print heads.. calling M&R today to get the skinny.

Single Head.

Registration mark is a 1 point line thickness.

Unidirectional
Grey 12 passes+
Speed: low
Step: 2336
1200x900

We asked for it to be set up for best quality at all times.

We have just under 3000 prints on our machine and it has been installed for jussssst over 1 year.

We are using the D2 ink also for about a year and also about 3000ish prints.  It's a good ink. (the best yet) since I left M&R.
They keep developing (the all perfect ink) that will work in all cases. I doubt there is one perfect ink in all cases, but it's worth attempting.
Some people are still using the K ink (and I think that was the 2nd version).  I liked that. It was thinner and to me, seemed to provide the best image detail in shadow tones. Some shops couldn't use it as easily due to their particular location and environment in their business. It would spread more easily in colder/damper environments. Therefore the new D ink and next, the D2 ink then D2a and now this newer latest version. All getting more and more improved along the way to withstand each different variable better.

My suggestion on the D2a ink is to do more of your daily and weekly maintenance. We do a lot of comfort colors (like 90% of all shirts) and no matter how clean our area is, over time, lint builds up under the head plate...and we now clean that head plate twice a week. Daily and weekly maintenance is a nozzle check every day, and to actually work on clearing any issues in the noz check each day.  Then, be sure to clean your wipers. Like anything, the more you leave air and gunk in the heads blocking a nozzle, the more than ink eventually dries (air contact) and creates a bigger clog.  Not unclogging small negative areas in the noz check  "clogs" is what gets people in trouble. They think oh, I can run this all day/well its fine...but they are building and creating a head problem.

Colin, That is a perfect noz check.  As you can see, you have no ink issue. It's not your ink. It prints noz checks fine. It's when you are imaging art over a larger area that you will see these slight imperfections.  Also note, any small speckles "spray" outside your image like you had shown in one of the images will not hold in the screen.

Also note, This is an area where (what I described) can and cannot be the problem.  It looks like it to me, has all of the tell tail signs, but it's happened before, where it ended up being something completely different that provided the same or very similar results. In the end, it will take some testing.
This can happen from shifting the printer around from one area to another, could be that it needed a tighter calibration at install, could be that somehow a screen or something bumped the head casing therefore jolting the print head, could have been from shipping, etc. could be a half a dozen things that caused it.   It's minor, but does matter in some areas as you've noticed. An ink change could also hide the issue. Thicker more dense ink could keep the area in question more gathered and less speckled for example.

[blue moon]

Currently using D2 ink.... but I was told very recently that that ink is harsh on the print heads.. calling M&R today to get the skinny.

Single Head.

Registration mark is a 1 point line thickness.

Unidirectional
Grey 12 passes+
Speed: low
Step: 2336
1200x900

We asked for it to be set up for best quality at all times.

We have just under 3000 prints on our machine and it has been installed for jussssst over 1 year.

sorry, this does not tell me anything. If Dan says it's good, then it's good. Just out of curiosity, does anybody have a better picture of a good nozzle check? I'd like to see and understand the pattern it's printing. . .

pierre

[Colin]

ok, so if I understand what Dan said correctly, the chance of it being a gummed up print head/a print head in need of cleaning is fairly high.

I had my guy go through the cleaning procedures and created a little test image that repeated across a 14 inch wide area.  What I found was that the problem has not gone away... but its not consistent across the screen (it wasn't consistent before either).  It's most prominent on the side where the print head begins its passes.  But, its also most prominent when the line thickness is very thin... the pics I will attach are .25 point line weights.  the 1 point line weights did not has as much splatter and airiness to the ink deposit, but they did have the "halo" effect on the side the print head travels.... I feel like I need a map

[Colin]

and the screen when it was shot.  This is a 150s mesh.